Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Filo25

kabayiri wrote: »

It wasn't my job to vote on their ability to deliver something though.

I had to participate in the referendum on the basis that both options had been arrived at (along with the question), after a lot of due diligence by the authors.

It turns out that this assumption was wildly optimistic. Maybe future politicians like use this as a 'learning exercise'

Not really much due dilligence by the authors when the question was so vague that it couldn't be defined.

The Leave supporting politicians ended up defining Brexit, I'm not sure much will be learned from the experience though as they will just end up blaming different politicians, the EU, Remainers and anyone else they can think of for the failure to deliver anything that looks like the sunny uplands of Brexit.

It's pretty much what populists do, promise the world, blame others for not being able to deliver it, rinse and repeat, there aren't any lessons to be learned there as long as people keep believing them,

Thrugelmir

Filo25 wrote: »

And yet back in NI there have been lots of rumours for a while that the DUP would find a different PM from within the Tory party more to their taste.

The problem with the DUP is that they are never particularly good at actually getting anything done, they are very good however at sensing weakness in negotiations and using leverage to get a good outcome, well practiced at it in NI politics!

PM's come and go. The border issue will run for decades yet!

LHW99

Not really much due dilligence by the authors when the question was so vague that it couldn't be defined.

The electoral comission looked at the question, and decided that the question was clear and neutral
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/elections-and-referendums/past-elections-and-referendums/eu-referendum/eu-referendum-question-assessment

A_Pandiculation

LHW99 wrote: »

The electoral comission looked at the question, and decided that the question was clear and neutral
https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/elections-and-referendums/past-elections-and-referendums/eu-referendum/eu-referendum-question-assessment

"Leave the EU" wan't clear enough for remainers apparently!
:rotfl:
Makes you wonder if any remainers are divorced because according to their logic it means leaving your partner really means staying where you are and still doing what they say.

Thrugelmir

Filo25 wrote: »

It's pretty much what populists do, promise the world, blame others for not being able to deliver it, rinse and repeat, there aren't any lessons to be learned there as long as people keep believing them,

The new (money driven) establishment wish to maintain the status quo. The EU itself isn't the entire issue. Much has to do with a sea change in post war economic policy. Which has run it's course. The emergence of China as an economic power has provided a very real threat.

Filo25

A_Pandiculation wrote: »

"Leave the EU" wan't clear enough for remainers apparently!
:rotfl:
Makes you wonder if any remainers are divorced because according to their logic it means leaving your partner really means staying where you are and still doing what they say.

I'm not the one who is confused, some Brexiteers still seem to be under the impression you can leave the EU and still get all the benefits of it, because they believed whatever rubbish a chancer like Boris Johnson came up with.

Don't blame Remainers that Theresa May's deal doesn't look like anything you thought you were promised, we never believed it could be delivered in the first place.

Filo25

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The new (money driven) establishment wish to maintain the status quo. The EU itself isn't the entire issue. Much has to do with a sea change in post war economic policy. Which has run it's course. The emergence of China as an economic power has provided a very real threat.

Actually I'm in favour of the status quo largely because nobody has yet come up with a credible form of Brexit model that would meet the demands of Leavers (less shared sovereignty etc) while also not leaving us substantially poorer in most realistic economic models.

Equally can anyone explain to me how Brexit is likely to help us deal with the geopolitical threat posed by a growing, confident China?

ukcarper

Filo25 wrote: »

Actually I'm in favour of the status quo largely because nobody has yet come up with a credible form of Brexit model that would meet the demands of Leavers (less shared sovereignty etc) while also not leaving us substantially poorer in most realistic economic models.

Equally can anyone explain to me how Brexit is likely to help us deal with the geopolitical threat posed by a growing, confident China?

What the status quo personally I'd willing go back to things as they were before referendum was called but can we do that, I'd be very surprised if we can. MPs showed their incompetence when they voted for referendum and I've absolutely no confidence they will be able to sort this out now.

Lungboy

ukcarper wrote: »

What the status quo personally I'd willing go back to things as they were before referendum was called but can we do that, I'd be very surprised if we can. MPs showed their incompetence when they voted for referendum and I've absolutely no confidence they will be able to sort this out now.

We might find out today.

Herzlos

I'd be a lot more comfortable with a roughly consistent status quo than a wildly undefined alternative.

I'm all for making changes and taking risks, where there the change is worth the effort/risk and appropriate bounds if it turns out to be incorrect.


Brexit could be a wonderful new age for the UK, but what are we planning on doing that means we need to risk our political and trading relationship with our biggest trading partner?
Where's the vision? Where are the uplands? Why are all of the politicians in damage limitation mode?

kabayiri wrote: »

It wasn't my job to vote on their ability to deliver something though.

It should have at least been a factor, as you can expect poor results when asking someone to do something they aren't any good at. For instance, you might need your appendix out, so you'd answer "yes" to "should we remove your appendix?" but would you still answer yes if you were asked by a mechanic and not a surgeon?


Since it was almost a given than the Tories would screw up the Brexit negotiations (admittedly even the most skeptical couldn't imagine how badly), was it a good idea to let them try it?


I was mostly an undecided, and would have been happy with Brexit if we had any sort of actual plan or any sort of confidence in our government. If Brexit had been a business proposal it'd have been laughed out of the room due to a complete lack of direction or ideas.