Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Enterprise_1701C

Moby wrote: »

I actively supported moves towards a United States of Europe. I saw it as progress from the broken system we have in the UK. As I've said after brexit the clamour for a united Ireland and an independent Scotland will grow. These forces and the rise of English nationalism will destroy the Union. What's more our country is now very divided and it's institutions are starved of funding. Look at the nhs, the army, police, prisons, justice, local Govmt, education etc. Years of austerity have lowered strength, morale and standards. Brexit will make us all poorer and we'll have less international influence. Already the focus has shifted; in our part of the globe, Macron, Merkel and their successors will be the main players negotiating with the Chinese and Americans. We have decided to give up our place at the table and indulge in years of introspection and navel gazing.

You do not have to be part of a political union to cooperate on defence, that has been proved time and time again.

kabayiri

Could May's deal split British Politics?

Certainly, most parties seem all over the place now. I'm not sure where the sense of coming together will arise from afterwards, should they accept something many openly dislike.

The Unionists have been sold down the river. Could they really align under a Corbyn led administration, given his sympathetic views to their opposition?

Filo25

kabayiri wrote: »

Could May's deal split British Politics?

Certainly, most parties seem all over the place now. I'm not sure where the sense of coming together will arise from afterwards, should they accept something many openly dislike.

The Unionists have been sold down the river. Could they really align under a Corbyn led administration, given his sympathetic views to their opposition?

They may align temporarily on this issue, but I really don't see any way the DUP will be looking to bring down the government to give the possibility of Corbyn becoming PM with McDonnell as the second most important man in government.

It is hard to overstate how much they hate those 2!

Ignoring Brexit, in terms of national politics the DUP's main wish seems to be to get May removed from office and replaced with Johnson or one of the other Brexiteers

kabayiri

Filo25 wrote: »

...
Ignoring Brexit, in terms of national politics the DUP' main wish seems to be to get May removed from office and replaced with Johnson or one of the other Brexiteers

The real Brexit *is* the after effects of leaving.

That's what people voted for, not any technicalities in leaving.

I can't recall Article 50 being discussed at all during the campaign.

No, the referendum was won by selling a vision to a section of the public.

If the reality is nowhere close to that vision then why should people trust the current parties in the future?

The current political party structure voted by a big majority to trigger A50. This brings in to question their political competence.

It is perhaps lucky that the right wingers don't have their act together. They would mince this lot in a future election.

A_Pandiculation

kabayiri wrote: »

The real Brexit *is* the after effects of leaving.

That's what people voted for, not any technicalities in leaving.

I can't recall Article 50 being discussed at all during the campaign.

No, the referendum was won by selling a vision to a section of the public.

If the reality is nowhere close to that vision then why should people trust the current parties in the future?

The current political party structure voted by a big majority to trigger A50. This brings in to question their political competence.

It is perhaps lucky that the right wingers don't have their act together. They would mince this lot in a future election.

If Brexit is botched and judged by voters to not be an exit from the EU, the next general election could be very very interesting. Methinks the possibility of a new Brexit-based part is quite likely and judging from the recent past could well shock the main parties of today.
It would serve them right too.

kabayiri

A_Pandiculation wrote: »

If Brexit is botched and judged by voters to not be an exit from the EU, the next general election could be very very interesting. Methinks the possibility of a new Brexit-based part is quite likely and judging from the recent past could well shock the main parties of today.
It would serve them right too.

This episode, from the Tory manifesto commitment to the referendum, through to the end point...

...all this has been the biggest test of any UK government in recent times. So far, it's not looking anywhere close to competent.

It's best we know now if they are still fit for purpose. I say this because there will be much stiffer challenges ahead.

Filo25

kabayiri wrote: »

The real Brexit *is* the after effects of leaving.

That's what people voted for, not any technicalities in leaving.

I can't recall Article 50 being discussed at all during the campaign.

No, the referendum was won by selling a vision to a section of the public.

If the reality is nowhere close to that vision then why should people trust the current parties in the future?

The current political party structure voted by a big majority to trigger A50. This brings in to question their political competence.

It is perhaps lucky that the right wingers don't have their act together. They would mince this lot in a future election.

Breaking news - that vision won't be delivered, largely because it was all of the benefits of the EU with none of the obligations, it basically can't be delivered.

You may be shocked to hear this but it isn't only Brexiters who aren't exactly chuffed with this deal, both major parties are lucky there isn't a credible alternative at present.

Realistically whatever the outcome of negotiations there are going to be a lot of annoyed people.

Thrugelmir

Filo25 wrote: »

Ignoring Brexit, in terms of national politics the DUP's main wish seems to be to get May removed from office and replaced with Johnson or one of the other Brexiteers

Main wish is to avoid the unification of Ireland by a back door means. That's the backstop. Who is PM makes not one ounce of difference. If the line looks like getting crossed.

kabayiri

Filo25 wrote: »

Breaking news - that vision won't be delivered, largely because it was all of the benefits of the EU with none of the obligations, it basically can't be delivered.
...

It wasn't my job to vote on their ability to deliver something though.

I had to participate in the referendum on the basis that both options had been arrived at (along with the question), after a lot of due diligence by the authors.

It turns out that this assumption was wildly optimistic. Maybe future politicians like use this as a 'learning exercise'

Filo25

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Main wish is to avoid the unification of Ireland by a back door means. That's the backstop. Who is PM makes not one ounce of difference. If the line looks like getting crossed.

And yet back in NI there have been lots of rumours for a while that the DUP would find a different PM from within the Tory party more to their taste.

The problem with the DUP is that they are never particularly good at actually getting anything done, they are very good however at sensing weakness in negotiations and using leverage to get a good outcome, well practiced at it in NI politics!