Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Lornapink

kabayiri wrote: »

This is essentially it really.

There isn't a day which passes without LBC mouth James O Brien pinning the problem on Gammons.

His narratives are built on lies and manipulations of very gullible people some of whom now phone in in tears to grovel for his forgiveness at having voted Leave.


1 key manipulation of his is to daily claim the UK press is about making people angry, selling them tickets to the ghost machine rather than the speak your weight machine.
He then follows this by setting about making people angry and frightened, selling ghost machine tickets, for example conning migrants into thinking they aren't welcome, that somehow somewhere there's a more tolerant immigrant friendly nation (Germany has actual far right MP's sitting in Parliament, and across the EU populist right wing movements are taking hold).

Lornapink

I'm backing Mrs May's deal, it's not perfect but that's life, it allows us to move forward and maintain great trade with the EU just as we predicted would happen without us having to accept the 4 freedoms.


Recall Project Fear insisting we'd get NOTHING, not a thing from the EU, that Brexiteers lived in fantasy land as they didn't understand all we'd get was a punishment deal (for example they cited Hollande's threatening tone) or at best crumbs from the top table.


I predict Parliament will vote through the deal. EU dignitaries have said today there is no other deal, and thus this makes Labours claims to being able to magic up a better deal look very circumspect.


EU Parliament packs up for months next year so there's no time after March to make a magic Labour party deal.

Filo25

Lornapink wrote: »

I'm backing Mrs May's deal, it's not perfect but that's life, it allows us to move forward and maintain great trade with the EU just as we predicted would happen without us having to accept the 4 freedoms.


Recall Project Fear insisting we'd get NOTHING, not a thing from the EU, that Brexiteers lived in fantasy land as they didn't understand all we'd get was a punishment deal (for example they cited Hollande's threatening tone) or at best crumbs from the top table.


I predict Parliament will vote through the deal. EU dignitaries have said today there is no other deal, and thus this makes Labours claims to being able to magic up a better deal look very circumspect.


EU Parliament packs up for months next year so there's no time after March to make a magic Labour party deal.

The level of rewriting of history here is remarkable if nothing else.

I will however agree that Labour have no chance of forcing a GE, which makes their whole unicorn Brexit as much of a nonsense as May claiming this deal frees up a fortune for the NHS.

Politicians in lying and talking nonsense shocker.

Thrugelmir

Lornapink wrote: »

I predict Parliament will vote through the deal. EU dignitaries have said today there is no other deal, and thus this makes Labours claims to being able to magic up a better deal look very circumspect.

Forces Corbyn to actually commit to something. Than remain wishy washy and ambiguous. Though you atart to wonder if it'll be Corbyn to fall before May. Starmer and him seem at odds with each other.

qwert_yuiop

Anyone see starmer as the next labour pm?

This Gibraltar nonsense - Spain holds two towns in North Africa. They also hold the Portuguese speaking city of Olivenza which they were obliged to return to Portugal in 1815. No UK pm should even begin to discuss Gibraltar until Spain corrects these obvious injustices.

Moby

wunferall wrote: »

:rotfl:
"Very few" ... 17.4 million!


Sir James Dyson.
Tim Martin.
Anthony Bamford (JCB).
Theo Paphitis.
Bernie Ecclestone.
Duncan Bannatyne.
Simon Wolfson (Next).
Dame Helena Morrissey (L&G)

Would you like me to keep going; I could (as you know).
Yep, "least likely to have entrepeneurial skills" that little selection.
:rotfl:

That's a very small list compared to the equivalent for remain and many of them are slightly odd ball celebrity types as well.:)

.....but seriously we know why people voted for brexit in huge numbers. It was a protest vote against the elite by the disadvantaged and less well educated fuelled by feelings of fear over immigration and promoted by lies. Perhaps there were a few people who voted for brexit because it would give them an entrepreneurial opportunity. If so I can't see why they couldn't flourish anyway, like those in your list!

Everyone now knows that the economic consequences of brexit will be detrimental, (how bad is arguable). Some of us were always saying that of course. The whole purpose of May's brexit is to keep us as close as possible to the EU while respecting the result. Even she knows it's about damage limitation! The words 'compromise', 'respecting the referendum result', 'bringing the country together' etc are repeated time and time again. May's brexit is pointless because it satisfies no-one. Its a total fudge! ....and we know why she is in this position..... She is trying to make the best of a bad situation. She doesn't even believe in Brexit! That's not good enough though either for remainers or brexiteers.

The only way out of this is a Peoples Vote... .....either we have a hard brexit or we remain! From what I've seen on this thread I am confident that the remain argument will trounce the brexit argument. Part of my reason for saying this is that not once has anyone been able to explain how either May's deal or a hard brexit will be better than the deal we already have!

Enterprise_1701C

Filo25 wrote: »

The level of rewriting of history here is remarkable if nothing else.

I will however agree that Labour have no chance of forcing a GE, which makes their whole unicorn Brexit as much of a nonsense as May claiming this deal frees up a fortune for the NHS.

Politicians in lying and talking nonsense shocker.

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Forces Corbyn to actually commit to something. Than remain wishy washy and ambiguous. Though you atart to wonder if it'll be Corbyn to fall before May. Starmer and him seem at odds with each other.

I read this the other day. I have no idea if it is true and can't seem to find out, but there would be uproar if it happened. Apparently McDonnell reckons power could (and he thinks it should)just be handed to Labour without an election.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46288429

Lornapink

kabayiri wrote: »

This is essentially it really.

The media (and some usually comfortable types) are very quick to point out any racist/xenophobic commentary about EU citizens or boat people or rioters in Calais etc.

Those same people then openly pour derision and hatred on fellow Brits in the parts of the UK they heartily dislike.

There isn't a day which passes without LBC mouth James O Brien pinning the problem on Gammons. He loves migrant callers ringing in, indulging in their views that it isn't their fault they are harder working and brighter than the locals.

All you end up with is a split society, and inevitably this feeds through to our political class.

I think we are bound to see more MPs selected on very narrow grounds. It's just a matter of time.

Moby wrote: »

May's brexit is pointless because it satisfies no-one.

This is one of those lazy narratives a bit like the 2016 'Trump has a 20% voter ceiling due to demographics, all the experts agree'.


Go out and speak to ordinary non politically engaged people, not fuming Brexiteers or ardent Remainers and you find they are saying they are happy with Mrs May's deal. I've actually done this.


Pre-referendum I would have bitten your arm off for May's deal; Ending FOM / vast cut in what we pay to the EU / far more localised decision making by UK politicians / freedom to cut global trade deals.


We will quietly diverge away from the EU anyway over time regardless of what some 'agreement' apparently forces us to do. Now before you say 'we must honour agreements we sign up to', take pause to consider that European countries fail to deliver on their NATO spending commitments, a very serious and irresponsible failure.

kabayiri

Lornapink wrote: »

...
Go out and speak to ordinary non politically engaged people, not fuming Brexiteers or ardent Remainers and you find they are saying they are happy with Mrs May's deal. I've actually done this.
...

I'm more interested in the execution rather than the words of the deal. I'd judge May's deal on the ground, as it were.

There was good argument made that we never applied the EU rules in our interest. Other EU states were far more selective and even cunning when needed.

Now, our politicians will not be able to hide behind the EU (like Osborne did).

If they don't deliver on migration promises which have been in place for almost a decade, the voters will know exactly who is to blame.

Herzlos

Lornapink wrote: »

conning migrants into thinking they aren't welcome, that somehow somewhere there's a more tolerant immigrant friendly nation.

So are you saying there wasn't a rise in anti-migrant hate crime since the vote?

Lornapink wrote: »

I'm backing Mrs May's deal, it's not perfect but that's life, it allows us to move forward and maintain great trade with the EU just as we predicted would happen without us having to accept the 4 freedoms.


Recall Project Fear insisting we'd get NOTHING, not a thing from the EU, that Brexiteers lived in fantasy land as they didn't understand all we'd get was a punishment deal (for example they cited Hollande's threatening tone) or at best crumbs from the top table.

So what did we get from this deal? As I understand it, we're still following all their rules unless we can convince them to drop the Irish backstop.

I predict Parliament will vote through the deal. EU dignitaries have said today there is no other deal, and thus this makes Labours claims to being able to magic up a better deal look very circumspect.


EU Parliament packs up for months next year so there's no time after March to make a magic Labour party deal.

I genuinely don't know; we don't have time to negotiate anything else without an extension and I'm not sure the EU would allow it.


Will Parliament buckle first and vote for Mays deal, or will they reject it and force us to get an extension / drop out? Who knows. I don't think Labour have the ability to accept it without looking like hypocrits.

qwert_yuiop wrote: »

This Gibraltar nonsense - Spain holds two towns in North Africa. They also hold the Portuguese speaking city of Olivenza which they were obliged to return to Portugal in 1815. No UK pm should even begin to discuss Gibraltar until Spain corrects these obvious injustices.

Why? The problem here isn't having overseas territory, it's the idea that the overseas territories can be treated like any other town in their jurisdiction.