Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

wunferall

gfplux wrote: »

The British Prime Minister has published
40 reasons to back the Brexit deal

Only one is needed to reject it.
"It's a farce" will do.


https://news.sky.com/story/getting-brexit-deal-through-commons-will-be-herculean-job-for-theresa-may-11563224

ukcarper

Moby wrote: »

My neighbours both sides were leave voters and when brexit was discussed immigration was the issue; same with the brexiters at work. My 'dig' was irritation at there now being so many people who seem to know how well we'll do outside the EU. They seem to understand the ins and outs of international trade and how easy it is to reach an agreement. Every credible expert tells us otherwise and yet their position doesn't change....project fear blah blah....... and what's more they are not prepared to countenance a peoples vote to test the arguments again.

For what its worth ...we may end up with a Norway style deal and full customs union....what Labour has been saying all along. At least that will be less harmful than the alternatives.

Immigration was a major concern nothing wrong in that. Nobody's really knows what will happen when we leave or what would happen if we didn't, extreme version are put forward by both sides when in truth it will probably be somewhere in between.

Matt_L

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

Can you explain how that will work then.

What trade agreement is it we have in place that allows us to do that without the deal currently being negotiated?

Can you explain what these 'rules' are you're so certain we are in compliance with?

The rules im referring to are those that phillw claims we will rip up as soon as we leave the EU, (project fear). Things like working time directives which one or two Tory MP's claim they don't like..

This is what I don't get with remainers or those on the left, they invent these unnecessary stories simply to sow fear. Instead of saying one or two Tories would like the WTD looked at they claim that once we've left the EU it will be "ripped up". FEAR

Same with you stating that 1000s would lose their jobs if a tariff was put on lobster, only to be shown later that very few fish for lobster, certainly not the 1000s you claimed.. FEAR

Or Moby who claimed last week that the EU would never let us continue to use any of security apparatus we currently do once we leave the EU, when almost an hour later MB followed by TM were stating the opposite.. FEAR

Moby earlier this year posted a photo of TM and PH sat in the HOC, Moby claimed the photo showed the two were laughing heartlessly at labour because they had lost a vote, (on working tax credits or something like it) Yet on the day of that particular vote TM and PH were wearing completely different clothing which meant the photo was a lie. (this was and may still be in the Corbyn thread) FEAR

Then i look back at the referendum.
Half a million jobs will be lost if we simply vote to leave the EU. FEAR
We will see another recession by simply voting to leave the EU. FEAR
A punishment budget would be needed with a simple vote to leave the EU. FEAR
Families would be £4300 worse off with a simple vote to leave. FEAR

The list goes on and then you wonder why few people believe what remainers say..

Some honesty would go a long why...

Thrugelmir

wunferall wrote: »

The whole thing has been a set-up from day one when Cameron found out that what he thought was impossible had happened.
Why else would known remainers of whichever party be put in charge of Brexit?

Polticians believe it or not are elected to represent the people and their wishes. Irrespective of their personal views on certain matters. Better to fight ones corner from within rather than snipe from the sidelines. Easy to pick holes. Far harder to find agreeable solutions that meet everyones demands. The EU itself isn't neccessarily going to remain on the same path indefinately. Empires as we the British only know to well rise and fall. What seemed like a good idea often over time proves otherwise.

qwert_yuiop

Herzlos wrote: »

Why? The problem here isn't having overseas territory, it's the idea that the overseas territories can be treated like any other town in their jurisdiction.

Of course it is. It always is.

Los hipocritas.

Laurence_Harvey

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

So you are sure of what would happen if we remained in the eu? Are veto powers not being eroded? Would we definitely not be forced to join the euro and schengen? Would the eu finally wake up and stop wasting so much money? Would they cease to head towards being a us of e, considering they almost certainly would not let people veto it, and it would be strong armed through on qualified majority? As for the army that was 'never going to happen' when the referendum wss going through, we would almost certainly have been expected to be a big part of that.

There is nothing certain on either side.

As a newcomer to this particular forum I’ve found this thread very interesting and informative (thanks to all);...however, just curious and completely off-topic (sorry!) but how do you manage to get so many ‘thanks’ ?. A ratio of almost 11:1 is mightily impressive.

Filo25

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

So you are sure of what would happen if we remained in the eu? Are veto powers not being eroded? Would we definitely not be forced to join the euro and schengen? Would the eu finally wake up and stop wasting so much money? Would they cease to head towards being a us of e, considering they almost certainly would not let people veto it, and it would be strong armed through on qualified majority? As for the army that was 'never going to happen' when the referendum wss going through, we would almost certainly have been expected to be a big part of that.

There is nothing certain on either side.

Sounds like "Project Fear" to me.

I'm stil waiting for Turkey to imminently join the EU, rather than worry about "what ifs" I will wait until they actually happen before taking fright and thinking its a good idea to run for the exit in terror.

The EU Army has been a boogeyman for a while now, that said sadly there may become a case for greater European military collaboration if Russia remains on its current path and the US continues down the path of becoming an unreliable ally under Trump. Lets be honest the total EU defence capability is not exactly mightily impressive, the UK may be better than most but lets not make out that we are a major military power these days either.

On being forced to join the Euro and Schengen, we are far from the only EU member who would be opposed to that path.

In short yes there are people who would love to push Europe in an ever more federalist direction, but many who are also opposed, twas ever thus...

Moby

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

So you are sure of what would happen if we remained in the eu? Are veto powers not being eroded? Would we definitely not be forced to join the euro and schengen? Would the eu finally wake up and stop wasting so much money? Would they cease to head towards being a us of e, considering they almost certainly would not let people veto it, and it would be strong armed through on qualified majority? As for the army that was 'never going to happen' when the referendum wss going through, we would almost certainly have been expected to be a big part of that.

There is nothing certain on either side.

I actively supported moves towards a United States of Europe. I saw it as progress from the broken system we have in the UK. As I've said after brexit the clamour for a united Ireland and an independent Scotland will grow. These forces and the rise of English nationalism will destroy the Union. What's more our country is now very divided and it's institutions are starved of funding. Look at the nhs, the army, police, prisons, justice, local Govmt, education etc. Years of austerity have lowered strength, morale and standards. Brexit will make us all poorer and we'll have less international influence. Already the focus has shifted; in our part of the globe, Macron, Merkel and their successors will be the main players negotiating with the Chinese and Americans. We have decided to give up our place at the table and indulge in years of introspection and navel gazing.

Enterprise_1701C

Laurence_Harvey wrote: »

As a newcomer to this particular forum I’ve found this thread very interesting and informative (thanks to all);...however, just curious and completely off-topic (sorry!) but how do you manage to get so many ‘thanks’ ?. A ratio of almost 11:1 is mightily impressive.

There is a lot of really nice and chatty threads on the forums, very friendly threads that don't go in for character assassinations like a lot of people on this one do. Have a look around and you will find some threads that are really friendly.

Not all the threads are attempting to overthrow democracy

chucknorris

ukcarper wrote: »

But that's not what you were doing is it, you were just having a dig at leave voters. I wonder if some of the remain supporters on here know any leave voters as they seem to just come out with the old stereotypes. I voted remain and was in the minority of my acquaintances and they are varied and include people who have created profitable companies.

I would have said the opposite, as I voted remain and almost everyone else that I knew had also voted remain, or so I thought until the subject came up at the bowls club, where it seems most of them voted leave.