Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Theophile

wunferall wrote: »

:rotfl:
Tim Martin.
:rotfl:

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Then there's Tim Martin (Wetherspoons)

And Tim Martin.

kabayiri

Herzlos wrote: »

So are you saying there wasn't a rise in anti-migrant hate crime since the vote?

..

I've seen absolutely nothing in terms of change.

I've seen a LOT of change in parts of Paris mind. There are some very unhappy locals out there.

There's a lot more backlash inside the EU, in places like Germany and Sweden and Poland.

The UK is by comparison pretty mild.

wunferall

Lornapink wrote: »

I'm backing Mrs May's deal, it's not perfect but that's life, it allows us to move forward and maintain great trade with the EU just as we predicted would happen without us having to accept the 4 freedoms.


Recall Project Fear insisting we'd get NOTHING, not a thing from the EU, that Brexiteers lived in fantasy land as they didn't understand all we'd get was a punishment deal (for example they cited Hollande's threatening tone) or at best crumbs from the top table.


I predict Parliament will vote through the deal. EU dignitaries have said today there is no other deal, and thus this makes Labours claims to being able to magic up a better deal look very circumspect.


EU Parliament packs up for months next year so there's no time after March to make a magic Labour party deal.

I look forward to seeing how your predictions pan out; I've stated mine before and with respect I think you're wrong.


The whole thing has been a set-up from day one when Cameron found out that what he thought was impossible had happened.
Why else would known remainers of whichever party be put in charge of Brexit?
There are after all enough Brexiter MP's.
All of the more senior ones have however by hook or by crook somehow been pushed to the political sidelines.

Then there's the "negotiations".
What a lie that has been!
One must presume that's the reason our past pro-Brexit negotiators are no more; their position was in fact a lie and they had no say in Brexit.
That leaves us with a proposed deal that means (despite what you suggest) we are not an independent nation.
No independent nation allows such a degree of external influence and control.

So here's what I think will happen:
Our parliament will reject the proposed deal.
Cue the faux-consternation not only of the EU and May but of many remainers.
Also cue much muttering and supposed refusal from the EU to change stance.
Than at the latest possible moment the UK will be offered something still very restrictive but this, we will be told, really is the best we can get and it will be better than the current proposal.
They hope that the UK will be so relieved that it will accept.

It really is so patently obvious; the EU think us stupid.
They will learn.
They've already had the shock of being told they're not wanted.
And if not by this, then certainly at the next UK general election where the UK public will undoubtedly make their displeasure known.


Some here might think me an extreme Brexiter.
Not so.
In fact I consider myself a realist.
For me the reality is that the EU too often treats it's citizenry as fools who cannot or should not be allowed to make decisions for themselves.
As the EU will undoubtedly see in it's elections next year, there are many within the EU who are equally dissatisfied.

wunferall

kabayiri wrote: »

I've seen absolutely nothing in terms of change.

I've seen a LOT of change in parts of Paris mind. There are some very unhappy locals out there.

There's a lot more backlash inside the EU, in places like Germany and Sweden and Poland.

The UK is by comparison pretty mild.

Yes the UK is by comparison pretty mild.
Of course those spending their lives on internet forums and never setting foot outside even their town don't realise this.

ukcarper

Moby wrote: »

I did. Wasn't it the answer you wanted? I seem to remember I've explained all this to you before. Post 2613 this thread:-
https://www.jrf.org.uk/report/brexit-vote-explained-poverty-low-skills-and-lack-opportunities

Just pointing out the irony that the very people who voted for brexit will also be the most affected by brexit and are the least likely to have the entrepreneurial skills and dynamism to change their lives to deal with the consequences. Perhaps I'm wrong of course....in a few months time we might have thousands of brexiteers starting up new companies and negotiating new trade deals with Singapore!

But that's not what you were doing is it, you were just having a dig at leave voters. I wonder if some of the remain supporters on here know any leave voters as they seem to just come out with the old stereotypes. I voted remain and was in the minority of my acquaintances and they are varied and include people who have created profitable companies.

Moby

ukcarper wrote: »

But that's not what you were doing is it, you were just having a dig at leave voters. I wonder if some of the remain supporters on here know any leave voters as they seem to just come out with the old stereotypes. I voted remain and was in the minority of my acquaintances and they are varied and include people who have created profitable companies.

My neighbours both sides were leave voters and when brexit was discussed immigration was the issue; same with the brexiters at work. My 'dig' was irritation at there now being so many people who seem to know how well we'll do outside the EU. They seem to understand the ins and outs of international trade and how easy it is to reach an agreement. Every credible expert tells us otherwise and yet their position doesn't change....project fear blah blah....... and what's more they are not prepared to countenance a peoples vote to test the arguments again.

For what its worth ...we may end up with a Norway style deal and full customs union....what Labour has been saying all along. At least that will be less harmful than the alternatives.

Enterprise_1701C

Moby wrote: »

My neighbours both sides were leave voters and when brexit was discussed immigration was the issue; same with the brexiters at work. My 'dig' was irritation at there now being so many people who seem to know how well we'll do outside the EU. They seem to understand the ins and outs of international trade and how easy it is to reach an agreement. Every credible expert tells us otherwise and yet their position doesn't change....project fear blah blah....... and what's more they are not prepared to countenance a peoples vote to test the arguments again.

For what its worth ...we may end up with a Norway style deal and full customs union....what Labour has been saying all along. At least that will be less harmful than the alternatives.

So you are sure of what would happen if we remained in the eu? Are veto powers not being eroded? Would we definitely not be forced to join the euro and schengen? Would the eu finally wake up and stop wasting so much money? Would they cease to head towards being a us of e, considering they almost certainly would not let people veto it, and it would be strong armed through on qualified majority? As for the army that was 'never going to happen' when the referendum wss going through, we would almost certainly have been expected to be a big part of that.

There is nothing certain on either side.

kabayiri

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

So you are sure of what would happen if we remained in the eu? Are veto powers not being eroded? Would we definitely not be forced to join the euro and schengen? Would the eu finally wake up and stop wasting so much money? Would they cease to head towards being a us of e, considering they almost certainly would not let people veto it, and it would be strong armed through on qualified majority? As for the army that was 'never going to happen' when the referendum wss going through, we would almost certainly have been expected to be a big part of that.

There is nothing certain on either side.

Nick Clegg called Nigel Farage a liar back in 2014, for suggestions that plans were in place for an European army.

Jump 4 years on, and there is much discussion....on an European army!

Of course these EU hard line politicians talk about future change. It's our pro-EU MPs who are completely disingenuous about how this will filter through to here.

The only certainty you get with politicians is when they fear being booted out at the ballot box. Someone like Verhofstadt doesn't care about what British voters worry about.

gfplux

The government have now published the complete and agreed texts of the withdrawal/transition agreement together with the document outlining the future relationship.
Here it all is.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/withdrawal-agreement-and-political-declaration?utm_source=66edcbc4-7cba-434b-ace1-779856697093&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate

gfplux

The British Prime Minister has published
40 reasons to back the Brexit deal

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/40-reasons-to-back-the-brexit-deal?utm_source=1250c6b6-fc4e-457c-bcec-a1ae5badc8f5&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=govuk-notifications&utm_content=immediate