Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

phillw

Matt_L wrote: »

Whats stopping the EU and UK agreeing that on the 30th of March next year the tariff's would be 0%?

Common sense. As soon as we rip up laws like the working time directive (which the government has been trying to do inside the EU for years, no matter what lie they've told you) then costs to EU companies will be higher than to UK companies.

At that point, there is no way they would do a deal that allowed UK companies to compete with EU companies on price as we would have an advantage. Therefore there will be some import duty.

Industries that the EU doesn't have will get an easier ride, but they are few and far between and without access to the EU labour force they will probably move anyway.

However the VAT on imports and exports to EU are going to change post brexit & the two sides will possibly introduce tariffs to make up for that. There will also be greater costs for customs and regulatory checks that will need to be paid from taxation somehow. We'll look at the £350 million a week with longing when the cost of not being in the EU is revealed.

If the EU impose import duty, then the UK in retaliation would impose an import duty as well.

Your question is kinda like saying "whats stopping us from agreeing that you will give me all of your money and possessions?"

A_Pandiculation wrote: »

Oh and it's consumers that pay the tariffs in higher prices not exporters.

If I'm in a shop in france that sells british caught lobsters & french caught lobsters & the customer is expected to pay extra for the british caught lobsters to cover the import duty, then which ones do you think they will buy?

Unless the exporters drop their price to cover the import duty, then they won't even get imported. The fishermen will have to hope that they can sell them within the UK.

Matt_L

phillw wrote: »

Common sense. As soon as we rip up laws like the working time directive (which the government has been trying to do inside the EU for years, no matter what lie they've told you) then costs to EU companies will be higher than to UK companies.

At that point, there is no way they would do a deal that allowed UK companies to compete with EU companies on price as we would have an advantage. Therefore there will be some import duty.

Industries that the EU doesn't have will get an easier ride, but they are few and far between and without access to the EU labour force they will probably move anyway.

However the VAT on imports and exports to EU are going to change post brexit & the two sides will possibly introduce tariffs to make up for that. There will also be greater costs for customs and regulatory checks that will need to be paid from taxation somehow. We'll look at the £350 million a week with longing when the cost of not being in the EU is revealed.

If the EU impose import duty, then the UK in retaliation would impose an import duty as well.

Your question is kinda like saying "whats stopping us from agreeing that you will give me all of your money and possessions?"



If I'm in a shop in france that sells british caught lobsters & french caught lobsters & the customer is expected to pay extra for the british caught lobsters to cover the import duty, then which ones do you think they will buy?

Unless the exporters drop their price to cover the import duty, then they won't even get imported. The fishermen will have to hope that they can sell them within the UK.

Im sorry but your entire argument appears to be nothing more than a delusional belief centred around your displeasure with the Tory party. That coupled with the fact that project fear lost last time but for some reason you believe it may work this time...

If two trading blocks decide to lower tariffs between themselves which happen to be in both parties interest then theres your very simple answer....

wunferall

Since somebody seems to care about the French maybe they would like to comment on French opposition to Macron's policies?
There seem to be a lot of gilets jaunes protesting with fires on the Champes Elysees for just one example, with the results including tear gas being used and even deaths.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46328439
https://www.theguardian.com/world/gallery/2018/nov/24/gilets-jaunes-protest-against-macron-policies-in-paris-and-across-france-in-pictures

Now a quick look at how other EU countries are problem-fee.
Or not.

The Netherlands & Belgium have a long tradition of Zwarte Piet, a guy who accompanies Saint Nicholas during the Christmas period. Well this year the Netherlands in particular has seen the country split between supporters & protesters; the result has been violent.
Apparently the violence was mostly the fault of the far right, with some even using the Nazi salute.
https://www.indy100.com/article/blackface-zwarte-piet-black-pete-arrested-protest-netherlands-8642761
https://nltimes.nl/2018/11/20/sides-zwarte-piet-caused-fights-sinterklaas-parties-dutch-pm


Germany?
Is being torn apart by Merkel's past invitation.
The AfD have risen to take Bundestag seats and even now would-be successors argue about new controversial migration propsals as a direct result of migration at Merkel's behest.
https://www.thelocal.de/20181123/merkel-asylum

Spain?
Is also being torn apart with Catalonia. I see Catalonians sided with Brits saying the Spanish use of Gibraltar as a pawn was unwise because it could push a no-deal Brexit.
Pep Guardiola has called for a legal referendum for Catalonia, and the most recent polling shows support for independence is rising.

Should I even bother discussing Italy, or Poland, or Hungary, or Austria?

We should consider ourselves fortunate to live in a country which is so tolerant compared to those mentioned earlier.
What a shame that the disingenuous nature of so many opposing a democratic decision are putting that at risk, as they will undoubtedly see if the UK does not leave the EU as it voted to do.

wunferall

phillw wrote: »

If I'm in a shop in france that sells british caught lobsters & french caught lobsters & the customer is expected to pay extra for the british caught lobsters to cover the import duty, then which ones do you think they will buy?

Unless the exporters drop their price to cover the import duty, then they won't even get imported. The fishermen will have to hope that they can sell them within the UK.

Oh I get it.
According to remainers everybody buying a lobster (not me BTW, I prefer crab. Much more tasty.) asks where the lobster comes from?
:rotfl:


The variability in fuel prices has far more impact than a few percent in tariffs; we've seen a 30% fall in a few days.
You can't fish for anything or get it anywhere without fuel.

phillw

Matt_L wrote: »

Im sorry but your entire argument appears to be nothing more than a delusional belief centred around your displeasure with the Tory party. That coupled with the fact that project fear lost last time but for some reason you believe it may work this time...

If two trading blocks decide to lower tariffs between themselves which happen to be in both parties interest then theres your very simple answer....

I'm sorry, but your entire argument appears to be nothing more than a delusional belief.

It's not in both parties interests to reduce tariffs unless all things are equal. In the EU everything was equal, everyone had to adhere to the same rules.

You want to rip up those rules and make things not equal.

You can pretend that the result would be scary and therefore is just "project fear", but you're only fooling yourself and anyone else prejudiced enough to believe you.

wunferall wrote: »

Oh I get it.
According to remainers everybody buying a lobster (not me BTW, I prefer crab. Much more tasty.) asks where the lobster comes from?
:rotfl:

Actually it was the leaver argument that the customer pays that would require them to be sold separately or you wouldn't be able to charge a different price.

You shouldn't talk about things you don't know about (a common leaver mistake). They do normally tell you where the lobster is caught.

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/the-big-prawn-co-big---juicy-whole-cooked-canadian-lobster-400g

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/sainsburys-raw-maine-lobster-tails--taste-the-difference-280g

https://www.thefishsociety.co.uk/scottish-lobster-tails.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2Oa0jfnt3gIVRFXTCh0szAIlEAkYASABEgLWpPD_BwE

wunferall wrote: »

The variability in fuel prices has far more impact than a few percent in tariffs; we've seen a 30% fall in a few days.

And fuel is priced in dollars, so a currency drop would wipe that out. If only it was as simple as believing in brexit and we didn't have to worry about money.

Herzlos

wunferall wrote: »

According to remainers everybody buying a lobster (not me BTW, I prefer crab. Much more tasty.) asks where the lobster comes from?

It's the opposite - whilst people may see where the lobster comes from (unless you're in a restaurant it's prominently displayed), most will take the cheaper option. I'm not sure if many EU lobster buyers would pay more from British over French.


If tariffs make British lobster cost more than French lobster, that's going to result in reduced sales of British lobster and likely less jobs. Before you go back to the "we're only talking about 1000 jobs" thing, lobsters is just one example of UK produced goods that will become less competitive. The same will apply to almost anything else we export which has a tariff attached (at an average 4% some things won't be badly affected).


Is Brexit likely to do anything to replace these jobs with something else? The only jobs created from Brexit (that I'm aware of) are customs agents and the "department for exiting the EU"

Matt_L

Herzlos wrote: »

It's the opposite - whilst people may see where the lobster comes from (unless you're in a restaurant it's prominently displayed), most will take the cheaper option. I'm not sure if many EU lobster buyers would pay more from British over French.


If tariffs make British lobster cost more than French lobster, that's going to result in reduced sales of British lobster and likely less jobs. Before you go back to the "we're only talking about 1000 jobs" thing, lobsters is just one example of UK produced goods that will become less competitive. The same will apply to almost anything else we export which has a tariff attached (at an average 4% some things won't be badly affected).


Is Brexit likely to do anything to replace these jobs with something else? The only jobs created from Brexit (that I'm aware of) are customs agents and the "department for exiting the EU"

You mean we might sell less each year into the EU, as we have been doing even before the referendum and be forced to sell to the much faster growing economies around the world. Good heavens what on earth are we going to do....

cogito

phillw wrote: »

You shouldn't talk about things you don't know about.

So why do you?

Matt_L

phillw wrote: »

I'm sorry, but your entire argument appears to be nothing more than a delusional belief.

It's not in both parties interests to reduce tariffs unless all things are equal. In the EU everything was equal, everyone had to adhere to the same rules.

You want to rip up those rules and make things not equal.

You can pretend that the result would be scary and therefore is just "project fear", but you're only fooling yourself and anyone else prejudiced enough to believe you.



Actually it was the leaver argument that the customer pays that would require them to be sold separately or you wouldn't be able to charge a different price.

You shouldn't talk about things you don't know about (a common leaver mistake). They do normally tell you where the lobster is caught.

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/the-big-prawn-co-big---juicy-whole-cooked-canadian-lobster-400g

https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/sainsburys-raw-maine-lobster-tails--taste-the-difference-280g

https://www.thefishsociety.co.uk/scottish-lobster-tails.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2Oa0jfnt3gIVRFXTCh0szAIlEAkYASABEgLWpPD_BwE



And fuel is priced in dollars, so a currency drop would wipe that out. If only it was as simple as believing in brexit and we didn't have to worry about money.

And im absolutely certain that we will abide by the necessary rules allowing us to continue to sell and buy from the EU with no tariffs, all this without the need of bringing back slavery as you would like us to believe...

HAMISH_MCTAVISH

Matt_L wrote: »

You mean we might sell less each year into the EU, as we have been doing even before the referendum

False.

Our sales into the EU have been growing in cash terms.

and be forced to sell to the much faster growing economies around the world.

Our sales elsewhere have been growing while we're in the EU.

Good heavens what on earth are we going to do....

The EU market and markets where we utilise EU trade deals account for 65% of our exports.

So without some kind of really significant trade deal with the EU we're pretty well stuffed.