Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

CKhalvashi

wunferall wrote: »

A "joke" as amusing as your past claims of starting an airline or sum such similar humour you mean? How is that plan going?

There was a big difference between the actual plan and that. No comment on my business dealings will be entered into. Are you an AE of MortgageFreeman by any chance? You are aware of the rules of having only one account on this site?

We couldn't help in all the years we were "in" because of the combined boys club. I trust your experience not one iota compared to those with known and relevant knowledge and I know that Greece, Italy and migration are far bigger problems than you suggest.
Oh and "some tweaking" of the EU has to be one of the biggest understatements ever seen in this thread.

I haven’t said I have specialist knowledge, I have said in my experience. My experience is mainly on a trade front. There are no significant issues to report on that front.

I also see no issue with those who require safety being able to get this. I agree it has been badly handled by several countries (including the UK), but have seen no evidence of every other person being a refugee in Germany as you would like to give as an impression.

First who says I prefer?
The country chose, so now you're blaming the whole UK again; some loyalty to your country on display there.
Not.

The country did choose, and that choice is looking increasingly like it was obtained fraudulently.

It wouldn’t be right to comment on an ongoing criminal investigation, however if Aaron Banks is convicted of offences in relation to the referendum, do you accept that it wasn’t the choice that the people actually made? Would you accept a re-run done properly this time?

If the answer to those is not ‘yes’, what are your justifications for flying in the face of democracy? What is your reason for not wishing for a vote on the deal, ensuring the democratic will of the people is followed?

CKhalvashi

Tromking wrote: »

Being rude, arrogant and threatening has characterised both extremes of the leave and remain argument in my experience. You even in your reply felt the need to be rude and arrogant by describing the legitimate choice of some UK citizens to vote leave as an act of stupidity.

I called Theresa May’s handling of the decision stupidity, not Britain’s choosing to leave in itself.

An EEA agreement outside of the CU may have been sensible, this mess caused by incompetence definitely isn’t sensible.

Herzlos

wunferall wrote: »

Come now, you and I both know that the EU are just the same in their cherry-picking.
They too want to keep some things and not others, like unfettered access to sell us their wares and the odd fish or two to boot.
Surely you must understand that by now.



As for the EU not "forcing us to do anything" oh yes indeed they do.
Everybody who has any sort of trade deal with them too is in some way forced into doing things, whether that is meeting a certain (sometimes obscure) standard or in meeting an obligation of quantity.
Again, surely you must understand that by now.

If to you the setting of such requirements by a group of countries is not akin to colonialism you're just ignoring the fact of how the EU works.

What are they cherry picking? Security cooperation?
No-one is being forced to trade with the EU or use any particular terms. We're completely free to trade under wto or even have no trade if we want. Thus there's no colonial oppression. Did we do the same with India? America?

Sure if we want to trade with the EU we need to do that on their terms but we don't need to trade with the EU. Like I said it'd be exactly the same if you want to trade with McDonald's or Asda - their terms.

Thrugelmir

CKhalvashi wrote: »

The situation in Greece and Italy is nowhere near as dire in my experience as people are making out, .

What do you attribute the significant political change in Italy down to then? Not everything has benefited in equal measure. Far from it in fact.

The entry of Greece into the Euro was a political fudge. Brussels being fully aware of the dodgy numbers. What do you say to the pensioners that are paying the price now? Don't worry you'll all be dead soon.

wunferall

CKhalvashi wrote: »

There was a big difference between the actual plan and that. No comment on my business dealings will be entered into. Are you an AE of MortgageFreeman by any chance? You are aware of the rules of having only one account on this site?

The last resort of one that lost an argument, personal insult.

No I am not "an AE of MortgageFreeman" whoever that is/was.
Since you like rules, I am sorely tempted report your post for not sticking to forum guidelines.
I can however read and you should be aware that all your past posts are available to read for anybody that can be bothered.


Now since you seem to prefer insult and goading to honest debate I will decline any further interraction with you, as per: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=75005120&postcount=3250

wunferall

Herzlos wrote: »

What are they cherry picking? Security cooperation?

Access to trading & continuing a £60 billlion/year excess.
Access to the global banking, insurance and stocks leader.
Access to the majority of their fishing waters.
Access to .............. ah why bother; you'd just bluster on and deny it all as per.

Why you refuse to acknowledge what is widely accepted even by the EU themselves can only mean one of two things.

You're not being serious.

You're deliberately provoking others.


Which is it?

CKhalvashi

Thrugelmir wrote: »

What do you attribute the significant political change in Italy down to then? Not everything has benefited in equal measure. Far from it in fact.

Italy has faced a lot of corporate corruption and fraud in its tax system for a number of years. I believe that aroud 1000 individuals have been prosecuted in recent months with average fraud at around €2,5m. Things are being done, it is just a shame that it’s taken so long to do it.

That is one of a number of issues, however definitely in the people I deal with from Italy (mainly Serbs who mainly either export from Italy to the Balkans or do trade within the EU), tax evasion has put their livelihoods at risk as their legitimate businesses haven’t been able to compete effectively. Hopefully this situation will now start to change.

This is a domestic issue, rather than an EU one.

If you have anything specific you’d like a comment on, just ask.

The entry of Greece into the Euro was a political fudge. Brussels being fully aware of the dodgy numbers. What do you say to the pensioners that are paying the price now? Don't worry you'll all be dead soon.

We do have some agreement here. Greece shouldn’t have gone into the Euro at the time it did, and even if it hadn’t probably shouldn’t now.

It was the premature entry of Greece to the Euro that actually made it less competitive in the market, rather than more, leading to economic issues for the country.

Again, this issue ultimately came about as a result of fraud in the private sector not being curtailed, which is a Greek domestic issue rather than an EU one.

CKhalvashi

wunferall wrote: »

The last resort of one that lost an argument, personal insult.

No I am not "an AE of MortgageFreeman" whoever that is/was.
Since you like rules, I am sorely tempted report your post for not sticking to forum guidelines.
I can however read and you should be aware that all your past posts are available to read for anybody that can be bothered.


Now since you seem to prefer insult and goading to honest debate I will decline any further interraction with you, as per: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=75005120&postcount=3250

I am more than happy to debate, and also more than happy to ask perfectly reasonable questions.

Attempting to undermine the credibility of someone you are debating with is completely unacceptable.

I am not discussing my past and present dealings in an attempt to keep the debate on topic and to protect myself, my family and anyone I may or may not do/wish to do business with from unwanted interference. Please respect this.

Thrugelmir

CKhalvashi wrote: »

Italy has faced a lot of corporate corruption and fraud in its tax system for a number of years. I believe that aroud 1000 individuals have been prosecuted in recent months with average fraud at around €2,5m. Things are being done, it is just a shame that it’s taken so long to do it.

Organised crime has been rife in Italy for decades. Money buys power and influence. Though this isn't the reason behind two decades of an underperforming economy. Resulting in living standards remaining stagnate. While those in Germany and France have improved considerably in comparison.

Rather like arriving late at a party. An understanding of history helps one gain an insight into the various views held today. Things rarely suddenly happen. They morph.

CKhalvashi

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Organised crime has been rife in Italy for decades. Money buys power and influence. Though this isn't the reason behind two decades of an underperforming economy. Resulting in living standards remaining stagnate. While those in Germany and France have improved considerably in comparison.

Rather like arriving late at a party. An understanding of history helps one gain an insight into the various views held today. Things rarely suddenly happen. They morph.

However as recently as 2011 the trade gap between Germany and Italy was closing, lead by the North, which I remember from my days at school was the richer part of the country.

We have to ask ourselves what has gone wrong from there. My contacts in Italy are mainly in Milan. They have found it more difficult to compete in the last 4-5 years. Corruption that, as you rightly say, has gone on for decades seems to have worsened in this time in the sectors that my contacts are involved in.

So, why has Italy become less competitive leading to the struggles now? I don’t know the answer, but I see no real change in EU reglations around that time to suggest that there is blame there. If you can come up with something I may have missed, please don’t hesitate to point it out to me.