Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

wunferall

Moby wrote: »

How does the rise of fascism fix anything. Trump, Bolsonaro, Orban etc are simply populist haters that manipulate the xenophobic fears of the gullible....... Hate the gays, hate immigrants, bring back dictatorship, bring back capital punishment, etc......seen it all before! They are not going to sweep away socialism by the way. That's just petit bourgeois wishful thinking. Hitlers brown shirts had the same hopes and we all saw how that turned out. People like me and millions of others will call them out for what they are;)

Does such a rise in EU member countries not show you just how little regard there is for the EU?
You should consider yourself fortunate to live in Britain which remains largely free of such nonsense, as your links showing what happens when it is tried very clearly show.

Populism is on the rise across EU member countries and is far, far closer to fascism than anything which is even remotely as popular in Britain.
Yet strangely you still want to be part of that.
:eek:

Arklight

Europeans are in favour of the EU and want it to continue:

https://www.politico.eu/article/europeans-love-the-eu-and-populists-too/

The most Eurosceptic country, Greece, would still vote to remain in the EU were there a referendum tomorrow.

Europeans want to be in the EU and the UK will have to deal with them in the bloc in which they work. Brexiteers will have to get their heads around this the hard way or the easy way, but either way, they will have to accept reality.

Droning on about how things were in 1973 is utterly irrelevant to how things are now.

kabayiri

Tromking wrote: »

The current rise of populism has less to do with fascism vs socialism and is more to with the partial rejection of the liberal consensus that has held sway in western democracies for a generation or two.
...

The liberal consensus is an attractive front on globalism, that's all really.

The rise of the right is a counter response, and it all centres on the importance of national identity.

The globalists will argue that you have no allegiance to nation state. It's only a stepping stone from there to domination by truly global corporations.

I don't want corporations which have no understanding or interest in local affairs. I've seen how easily they can move thousands of jobs in a mundane teleconf meeting. They really don't care how regional needs differ.

wunferall

Arklight wrote: »

Europeans are in favour of the EU and want it to continue:

https://www.politico.eu/article/europeans-love-the-eu-and-populists-too/

The most Eurosceptic country, Greece, would still vote to remain in the EU were there a referendum tomorrow.

Europeans want to be in the EU and the UK will have to deal with them in the bloc in which they work. Brexiteers will have to get their heads around this the hard way or the easy way, but either way, they will have to accept reality.

Droning on about how things were in 1973 is utterly irrelevant to how things are now.

Another poll?

48% agree & 46% don't.
That's a lot of dont's and the elections will be interesting if that number is even vaguely accurate.
There's a very mixed message in the poll too despite the EU obviously trying desperately to make it appear that their institution is much-loved, such as the 42% thinking it is heading in the wrong direction vs only 32% who think the EU are heading in the right direction.

Regardless, who is surprised that a poll carried out for the European Parliament before Parliamentary elections would suggest anything other than that the EU is loved by most of it's citizens?

As the Dutch TV interviewer in my earlier posts said:
"poll support for EU is FAKE".
I suspect that in May both you and the EU won't be crowing quite so much about how popular the EU is with it's populace.

Herzlos

wunferall wrote: »

This country has traded with EU countries for millenia without problem.
Other countries around the world have also traded with EU countries without problem.
Then along comes the EEC which morphed into the EU - and all of a sudden trade becomes a problem.
"You must do this to get that."
So it's pretty obvious who is the new would-be colonial master from those facts.

The EU isn't forcing us to do anything though. We're free to leave and trade with them on the same terms as any other country we want to copy. To think that's colonialism is to completely miss what colonialism is or ignore the genuine struggles various countries had yo get away from British rule. Some of them had to go to war with us to get their freedom. On the other hand all we have to do is decide on the terms of departure.

What they won't let us do is leave the bits we want and keep the bits we want. That's why brexit is taking so long.

We'll still trade with the EU after leave as we did before we joined - less efficiently than when we were on the outside. I'm sure you must understand that by now.

CKhalvashi

ukcarper wrote: »

I think he made a reasonably good job of defending himself and we will have to see what police inquiry finds out he didn't seem overly concerned.

Probably because either way in interfering in a police investigation he knows he can appeal any guilty verdict with a reasonable chance of success as a result of the publicity.

It should not have been shown on TV until after any trial, as a regulator has found enough evidence of wrongdoing to warrant a police investigation and justice should be allowed to prevail if necessary.

Sovereignty of the courts and all that

wunferall

Herzlos wrote: »

The EU isn't forcing us to do anything though. We're free to leave and trade with them on the same terms as any other country we want to copy. To think that's colonialism is to completely miss what colonialism is or ignore the genuine struggles various countries had yo get away from British rule. Some of them had to go to war with us to get their freedom. On the other hand all we have to do is decide on the terms of departure.

What they won't let us do is leave the bits we want and keep the bits we want. That's why brexit is taking so long.

We'll still trade with the EU after leave as we did before we joined - less efficiently than when we were on the outside. I'm sure you must understand that by now.

Come now, you and I both know that the EU are just the same in their cherry-picking.
They too want to keep some things and not others, like unfettered access to sell us their wares and the odd fish or two to boot.
Surely you must understand that by now.



As for the EU not "forcing us to do anything" oh yes indeed they do.
Everybody who has any sort of trade deal with them too is in some way forced into doing things, whether that is meeting a certain (sometimes obscure) standard or in meeting an obligation of quantity.
Again, surely you must understand that by now.

If to you the setting of such requirements by a group of countries is not akin to colonialism you're just ignoring the fact of how the EU works.

Arklight

wunferall wrote: »

Another poll?

48% agree & 46% don't.
That's a lot of dont's and the elections will be interesting if that number is even vaguely accurate.
There's a very mixed message in the poll too despite the EU obviously trying desperately to make it appear that their institution is much-loved, such as the 42% thinking it is heading in the wrong direction vs only 32% who think the EU are heading in the right direction.

Regardless, who is surprised that a poll carried out for the European Parliament before Parliamentary elections would suggest anything other than that the EU is loved by most of it's citizens?

As the Dutch TV interviewer in my earlier posts said:
"poll support for EU is FAKE".
I suspect that in May both you and the EU won't be crowing quite so much about how popular the EU is with it's populace.

The EU isn't much loved. Europeans don't love Brussels. Americans dislike and are suspicious of D.C. Brits aren't keen on Westminster.

That's very different to any of those people wanting to abandon any of those institutions. Brexiteers see things in black and white where because they don't like the EU then any alternative is better. But free movement (at least of themselves) a common market to trade freely, shared R&D, and shared defence and policing is something even Brexiteers want.

The painful process you are undergoing is that it's becoming apparent to many of you that you can't have any of those things without membership of the EU.

Brexit was a great opportunity for Brexiteers to suggest something else. Still waiting.

wunferall

Arklight wrote: »

The EU isn't much loved. Europeans don't love Brussels. Americans dislike and are suspicious of D.C. Brits aren't keen on Westminster.

That's very different to any of those people wanting to abandon any of those institutions. Brexiteers see things in black and white where because they don't like the EU then any alternative is better. But free movement (at least of themselves) a common market to trade freely, shared R&D, and shared defence and policing is something even Brexiteers want.

The painful process you are undergoing is that it's becoming apparent to many of you that you can't have any of those things without membership of the EU.

Brexit was a great opportunity for Brexiteers to suggest something else. Still waiting.

Perhaps you're unaware of a great old proverb:





Brexit may well indeed be a great opportunity.
Ignore the myriad suggestions already made if you wish but you'll have to wait until well after we have actually left to see the true value of leaving.
Another proverb: "Rome wasn't built in a day".

Arklight

wunferall wrote: »

Perhaps you're unaware of a great old proverb:





Brexit may well indeed be a great opportunity.
Ignore the myriad suggestions already made if you wish but you'll have to wait until well after we have actually left to see the true value of leaving.
Another proverb: "Rome wasn't built in a day".

Ironically, as by then 2/3 of the people who voted for this mess will be dead of old age and then we'll be rejoining.

Or is that the point of Brexit, a gift we don't want that we'll return after you've gone?

Thanks.