Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

andrewf75

gfplux wrote: »

If a country under invests in infrastructure and infrastructure maintenance you end up with infrastructure not fit for purpose.

Perhaps immigrants traveling to and from work, getting their children educated and when sick using the NHS has hastened the collapse of that infrastructure.
But they and the EU are being blamed for faults that were there in the first place.

Lucky for Government too many people are blaming everything and everyone BUT successive British Governments.

Will this change after Brexit. I don’t think so. Smoke and mirrors hide the true problem that COULD have been highlighted after the referendum but was not.

Spot on. Its been proven that immigrants contribute more to the economy (because they are younger) so why hasn't this money been invested in services? Of course more people equals more strain on services, but more people equals more money to improve them! Per capita spend on infrastructure has clearly been too low.

cogito

andrewf75 wrote: »

Spot on. Its been proven that immigrants contribute more to the economy (because they are younger) so why hasn't this money been invested in services? Of course more people equals more strain on services, but more people equals more money to improve them! Per capita spend on infrastructure has clearly been too low.

Spending on infrastructure in Germany and Italy is lower than the UK. Sorry if that's inconvenient for you.

kabayiri

gfplux wrote: »

If a country under invests in infrastructure and infrastructure maintenance you end up with infrastructure not fit for purpose.
...

This is indeed the point.

You have to take a long hard cold look at the whole of the UK, and ask if it really is suited to the kind of mass migration we have been witnessing for 15+ years.

When it came to another EU initiative, the Euro, it is clear we were not suited to it.

I'm not long back from Northern Italy, and the difference in quality rail transport could not be more obvious. Coming back here and paying a few hundred quid for an overcrowded train to London makes you think.

I'm not really a socialist, but I would plough a lot more money into public transport. I think you can build links and encourage more business to move from an increasingly over crowded SE. The NE region is not set to grow at all, as it stands.

kabayiri

cogito wrote: »

Spending on infrastructure in Germany and Italy is lower than the UK. Sorry if that's inconvenient for you.

This is indeed true, but I do think we could be smarter on our long term spending.

I was looking at the tunneling plans for HS2, and there is a lot buried cost there (scuse the pun!).

Will HS2 offer ticket prices to encourage the masses to access work? I'm not sure.

Herzlos

kabayiri wrote: »

You have to take a long hard cold look at the whole of the UK, and ask if it really is suited to the kind of mass migration we have been witnessing for 15+ years.

Yes. Further than that, it benefits us and we need it to deal with the aging population. Or we can encourage the natives to breed more but it's still going to take us about 20 years to get our workforce.


When it came to another EU initiative, the Euro, it is clear we were not suited to it.

I'm not really a socialist, but I would plough a lot more money into public transport. I think you can build links and encourage more business to move from an increasingly over crowded SE. The NE region is not set to grow at all, as it stands.

I agree entirely; I'd be throwing huge money into public transport and subsidizing it so that it's genuinely cheaper than driving. At the moment I use public transport to work because I work close to a station, but it costs me more than driving in, so I only really do it to work/read on the commute. For single trips with even a single passenger the car works out cheaper and more convenient most of the time.


We've grossly underinvested in infrastructure since before we joined the EU, and our public transport is a laughing stock.

However I think that if Brexit results in any economic downturn, then the investment in public transport will contract further and we'll fall further behind. If there was any appetite to address the issue (which there isn't, because we'd lead by London centric short-termists) we'd be in a better position to do something from within the EU.

Lungboy

cogito wrote: »

Spending on infrastructure in Germany and Italy is lower than the UK. Sorry if that's inconvenient for you.

Yes and look at what that leads to. Italian infrastructure is crumbling at a shocking rate. They need to spend more, and so do we.

Thrugelmir

BobQ wrote: »

Not addressed to me but my view is that if we have people with the skills to do jobs we should not encourage immigration. But until we train enough nurses and electricians and incentivise them to work in the UK (we appear not be doing this) we need short term immigration.

Shortage of nursing staff across Europe. Sign of an ageing population. Reliance on immgration isn't the answer. Nursing staff will likewise where the money is. The Middle East offering sizable attraction.

andrewf75

cogito wrote: »

Spending on infrastructure in Germany and Italy is lower than the UK. Sorry if that's inconvenient for you.

Not inconvenient, I'm not someone who pushes a view and won't accept being wrong - but I find it surprising in the case of Germany, where I have lived and the infrastructure is I would say much better than here.
If Germany spends less on infrastructure than us then we’re clearly not getting value for money.

Thrugelmir

andrewf75 wrote: »

but I find it surprising in the case of Germany, where I have lived and the infrastructure is I would say much better than here.

Try Hamburg then. Makes London traffic look quick on a bad day.

Thrugelmir

Keeping update with European news. No surprises really. Though how long will Merkel remain in post.

Italy's economy stalls as eurozone slows down

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46028714

Germany's under-fire Merkel plans era-ending exit in 2021

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-germany-politics-merkel/germanys-under-fire-merkel-plans-era-ending-exit-in-2021-idUKKCN1N310Z

Good news as progress made elewhere. Some countries be pragmatic rather than dogmatic.

UK, Norway agree right to remain for their citizens after Brexit

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-may-nordics-norway/uk-norway-agree-right-to-remain-for-their-citizens-after-brexit-idUKKCN1N41R1