Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

ukcarper

BobQ wrote: »

A real triumph for democracy then

I agree but that's the fault of all major parties.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

O



You love being pedantic.

"educated guess
noun
a guess based on knowledge and experience and therefore likely to be correct."

The old people who are being forced to come back to the UK because they get paid in sterling are the ones that will be a drain on the NHS.

We know from official statistics that european migrants are a net contributor to the NHS. They are the only thing propping up this country, we're going to miss them if they decide that the hostile environment isn't where they want to live. Some have left already.

Why did he choose to insult a large number of people I can't see any reason and it detracted from the point he was making.

I'm not convinced by those statistics but I don't think they are a drain on NHS and I don't believe they are propping up the country.

BobQ

Lornapink wrote: »

Floored studies that would never hope to capture the reality.

How do you know they are on the floor?:)

No one working cash in hand and claiming benefits is going to participate in a survey with a semi-official looking person carrying a clip board.

True but migrants who have entered the country legally are unlikely to refuse to participate unless as you say they are breaking the law. But why do you think that cash in hand working is the preserve of just migrants? People born in this country work cash in hand and others (who call themselves entrepreneurs, managers, directors and other respectable names) pay these people cash in hand for a reason. Also why assume that only migrants abuse the benefits system?

On one hand you say we need immigrants to do all the low paid work, on the other that somehow they are paying lots of tax! 6 m immigrants signed-on to a GP's surgery in the last 10 years.

Well given that unemployment is allegedly at a record low we need immigrants in many different skill levels. Clearly those unskilled work will contribute less but many are skilled like doctors, nurses, builders, plumbers and electricians who contribute more.

As I always ask, whay is your end-vision? Relentless immigration until...........

Not addressed to me but my view is that if we have people with the skills to do jobs we should not encourage immigration. But until we train enough nurses and electricians and incentivise them to work in the UK (we appear not be doing this) we need short term immigration.

And all the time employment is at a record high and we have insufficient fit people able to do unskilled work like fruit picking, we need unskilled migrant workers. I suppose we could conscript retired people to do the jobs?


Fortunately the Brexiters have the solution, contract the economy, raise unemployment, cut back on unnecessary education and create our own low paid, unskilled workforce.

buglawton

HAMISH_MCTAVISH wrote: »

LOL - it's the usual Brexiteer half truth dance.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-election-poll/poll-shows-support-for-eu-at-35-year-high-across-bloc-idUSKCN1IO2SP

Pro-EU sentiment in Italy now leads anti-EU sentiment and it's on an improving trend.

And across the EU pro-EU sentiment is now at a 35 year high.:beer:

Erm except that a poll in October showed only 44% of Italians who responded wanted to stay in.
https://www.thelocal.it/20181017/italy-eu-eurosceptic-italexit-brexit

It takes 2 to tango.

cogito

phillw wrote: »

Oh the irony. Polling is unreliable, so you ask people to take part in a poll. The government should ignore it because it's unreliable, got it.

If you are saying that you cannot tell the difference between an opinion poll and a petition, you should look it up and post the definition on here. That's what you usually do. That's my educated guess.

Theophile

buglawton wrote: »

Erm except that a poll in October showed only 44% of Italians who responded wanted to stay in.
https://www.thelocal.it/20181017/italy-eu-eurosceptic-italexit-brexit

It takes 2 to tango.

From your link:

with only 24 percent in Italy saying they would vote to leave the bloc

Glad we cleared that up. :rotfl:

buglawton

Theophile wrote: »

From your link:

Glad we cleared that up. :rotfl:

The lead paragraph from the linked article.
"According to a poll of nearly 28,000 Europeans commissioned by the European Parliament, just 44 percent of Italians surveyed said they would vote to stay in the EU, the lowest percentage of all 28 member states"

But why let an awkward fact get in the way of an entrenched opinion?

gfplux

kabayiri wrote: »

I personally know how my relative makes money out of migrant workers in a food manufacturing business, so I do get this argument that without cheap labour the production would just go elsewhere. He would appreciate even cheaper labour, of course.

Thing is, I don't see much evidence of this financial affluence being ploughed back into the local community. West Yorkshire has some of the most pathetic transport links around.

Surely, you can see the disconnect between country-level wealth, and that money going back into the regions?

Cameron was either unaware of the discontent, or arrogant about the scale of it. In the greater scheme of things, it wouldn't have cost the government that much to address it. Bit late now.

If a country under invests in infrastructure and infrastructure maintenance you end up with infrastructure not fit for purpose.

Perhaps immigrants traveling to and from work, getting their children educated and when sick using the NHS has hastened the collapse of that infrastructure.
But they and the EU are being blamed for faults that were there in the first place.

Lucky for Government too many people are blaming everything and everyone BUT successive British Governments.

Will this change after Brexit. I don’t think so. Smoke and mirrors hide the true problem that COULD have been highlighted after the referendum but was not.

Herzlos

buglawton wrote: »

The lead paragraph from the linked article.
"According to a poll of nearly 28,000 Europeans commissioned by the European Parliament, just 44 percent of Italians surveyed said they would vote to stay in the EU, the lowest percentage of all 28 member states"

But why let an awkward fact get in the way of an entrenched opinion?

You do realise that the statements aren't contradictory? His point, based on the figures is that Italy is about half as likely to vote to leave the EU as we were, based on polling. That 44% wouldn't vote to join doesn't invalidate that only 24% saying they'd leave.

kabayiri

phillw wrote: »

...
At the expense of the people themselves. You wouldn't like it if our government behaved like China.
...

Actually, this Chinese government has lifted millions of Chinese people out of poverty. There is always a downside, of course, but it's undeniable there is also a burgeoning middle class in China now.

They are also buying significant assets (where they can), in Africa and South America, alongside sponsorship of some of the research units affiliated to our Universities.

I'm not saying it's a plan we mirror, but I do acknowledge it's a clear plan.

We will not be able to ignore a more powerful China in the future. I think we need to understand their plans and adjust ours to profit from a changing power base in the world.