Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Cakeguts

Herzlos wrote: »

Do you have any basis for the claim they didn't know what they were marching for? I asked a few pages ago and didn't get an answer.


Are you trying to claim that (a) the Leave campaign didn't lie and/or (b) no-one believed any of those lies?




The Leave campaign lied, that should be indisputable, even from their own mouths. "Possible promises" is my favourite one, re the £350m on the bus.
Remain over-egged the negatives, but I don't think they did anything that could be claimed was an outright lie, and certainly nothing like "We send £350m a week to the EU. Lets spend it on the NHS instead" when (a) we don't send anything like £350m/week to the EU and there was never any intent to give it to the the NHS.


"Only a fool would leave the single market"
"Why can't we be like Norway?"
"Easiest deal in human history"

And so on.


The only thing that Leave have promised that has been followed through is the blue passports. And we could have had them anyway.




Fair point. They lose the ability to do those things easily, without needing sponsors, funding and paperwork. They lose the ability to do so without being discriminated against or having their status invalidated at a governments whim (like the Windrush thing here). They lose the ability to live and work in any of the EU27 whilst having the exact same legal status as a native resident.

The evidence that the marchers didn't know what they were marching for came from the BBC news. Most of them thought that the People's Vote was a second referendum vote. It wasn't it was vote on the Brexit deal. I was astounded that people could attend a march for something else not what they thought it was.



The Leave campaign and the Remain campaign lied but you have no evidence that the Leave voters believed those lies.



There was a survey. Which found that young people want to work abroad. The top place they would like to work is the US followed by Canada, Australia, New Zealand and Spain.



I can understand this. Who wants to work in hospitality in Germany when they can work in something better in New Zealand.?

Cakeguts

Herzlos wrote: »

If only (a) we knew what the result meant, (b) we knew what Leaving meant and (c) Leavers could convince half the voting population that they were wrong.


I've been asking Leavers to convince me for 2 years now and I've got nowhere. No credible reason to be out of the EU that is more nuanced than "EU BAD".

a) The result means we are leaving the EU.

b) We know what it means. It means that the UK won't be ruled from Brussels.

c) They don't need to do this it was a choice of votes. There is no need to convince anyone that they voted the wrong way and the only people who try to do this are the Remainers.



Why do leavers have to convince you? They have every right to vote for something that doesn't suit you without having to explain to you why they did it.



All I hear from Remainers is that the Leave voters got it wrong.



Followed by Leaving will damage our children's futures when research shows that UK young people wouldn't choose to work in another EU country they prefer an English speaking one outside the EU.

Joan_number_1_2

Cakeguts wrote: »

All I hear from Remainers is that the Leave voters got it wrong.

Followed by lies and deliberate deception.

A great very recent example with the mass copy & paste earlier. Not content with what might be breach of copyright the deliberate deception was in not saying it was from another source and trying to pass it off as their own.
:eek:

If remainers are so certain in their beliefs they would be honest.
They aren't & that tells Brexiters all they need to know.

gardner1

Herzlos wrote: »

If only (a) we knew what the result meant, (b) we knew what Leaving meant and (c) Leavers could convince half the voting population that they were wrong.


I've been asking Leavers to convince me for 2 years now and I've got nowhere. No credible reason to be out of the EU that is more nuanced than "EU BAD".

I've been asking remainers the same question and getting nowhere as well
Actually it was 48%.....the majority won

Herzlos

Cakeguts wrote: »

a) The result means we are leaving the EU.


b) We know what it means. It means that the UK won't be ruled from Brussels.

Do we know any details? Will we still follow EU directives for the things we need to in order to get a trade deal?

Why do leavers have to convince you?

If Leavers want to get Remainers to stop Remoaning about it and holding them back, they need to convince the Remainers to get on board the Leave train.

Followed by Leaving will damage our children's futures when research shows that UK young people wouldn't choose to work in another EU country they prefer an English speaking one outside the EU.

There is still going to be plenty of damage even ignoring easy access to EU jobs and education markets.
I'm curious about the survey though, is this where people *want* to go to, or where they *actually* go to?
I can see lots of people preferring to go to the US and then deciding later on that Germany is actually better for them.

Thrugelmir

Originally Posted by Herzlos
If only (a) we knew what the result meant, (b) we knew what Leaving meant and (c) Leavers could convince half the voting population that they were wrong.

(a) The UK is leaving the EU.
(b) As individuals we will are have the right to democratically change the direction.
(c) If I don't vote for the Green Party at a general election, and Labour wins. Do I now have to justify my choice?

LHW99

They lose the ability to live and work in any of the EU27 whilst having the exact same legal status as a native resident.

IMO that shouldn't be the case anyway.
If you are a resident of the country (native, ie born there, naturalised or granted citizenship) you have committed to that country, its society and hopefully its laws. If you live and work there, you have not made that commitment, no matter how long you happen to have been there.
It doesn't mean you shouldn't be subject to due legal process, but I'm not sure why you should think anyone should be allowed absolutely all priviledges due to those who have (made) a specific commitment to a country, for example expecting equal access to a new job if your old post disappears.

Joan_number_1_2

Those remainers who insist that the world is laughing at the UK ought to read this because it's very obvious that even those in the EU value the UK.

The proportion of overseas cash being ploughed into London office buildings has hit a record high as a trio of deep-pocketed investors from mainland Europe jostled with others from Hong Kong and Korea in signing a string of multi-hundred-million pound deals.

Foreign buyers spent £3.8bn on offices in central London in the three months to September, accounting for 92pc of the total investment, according to figures from property advisors CBRE.

CBRE’s James Beckham said the flurry of mega-deals reflected overseas investors’ continued confidence in the capital, despite uncertainty around Brexit.

He added: “Attractive yields relative to other European cities, coupled with the comparative weakness of sterling, mean we have seen investors from all corners of the globe hungry to deploy capital in London.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/10/22/proportion-foreign-investors-london-offices-spikes-europeans/


And this so near to Brexit day!

kabayiri

Why is EU inspired globalization a good thing?

In the 40+ years of EU membership, whole industrial bases have been lost from a myriad of regional towns up and down the land.

I'm not so clear on why these places should owe some debt of gratitude to the EU for their part in this globalized push.

Maybe this would happen anyway without the EU, but to sell it as a benefit of the EU is suspect.

Thrugelmir

kabayiri wrote: »

Why is EU inspired globalization a good thing?

Globalisation was US driven, though increasingly now coming from the East. The EU is getting squeezed just like the rest of the Western world.