Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

kabayiri

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Globalisation was US driven, though increasingly now coming from the East. The EU is getting squeezed just like the rest of the Western world.

Agreed. Many of us have seen first hand how US companies work.

What puzzles me is how this is a plus point for the EU though?

A widely available pool of general labour, EU wide, will over time push down wage levels of the locals across EU-land.

It doesn't sound like an easy sell to your average voter.

cogito

I'm not well known for linking to articles from the Graun, but this one is food for thought for anyone suggesting that globalisation is a good thing.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/14/globalisation-the-rise-and-fall-of-an-idea-that-swept-the-world

I'm surprised that anyone with Moby's political leanings thinks that it is a reason for remaining in the EU. Unfortunately, globalisation is with us and it seems that there is not much that we can do other than try to manage it. Not that that is very likely given that the political elites seem to do rather well out of it.

Moby

cogito wrote: »

I'm not well known for linking to articles from the Graun, but this one is food for thought for anyone suggesting that globalisation is a good thing.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jul/14/globalisation-the-rise-and-fall-of-an-idea-that-swept-the-world

I'm surprised that anyone with Moby's political leanings thinks that it is a reason for remaining in the EU. Unfortunately, globalisation is with us and it seems that there is not much that we can do other than try to manage it. Not that that is very likely given that the political elites seem to do rather well out of it.

Basically as the article says globalisation can mean all things to all people and whatever your politics you can have an angle. It's inevitable that national boundaries are going to become a thing of the past. The big issues of the future are AI and global warming, both can only effectively be addressed through international co-operation. For us that means our nearest neighbours. Nationalism, national identity and nativism just gets in the way. Totally agree that big corporations have a lot to answer for but again holding them to account can only be done through international co-operation. On a positive note most of the younger generation realise this. Sadly due to Brexit our younger generation may struggle to get access to the same opportunities as their equivalent in the EU.

buglawton

There have been numerous posts here saying Brexit is logistically impossible and economically disastrous, therefore it shouldn't happen/we need another referendum/we should opt for BINO.

Here's a thought then: Just supposing that we were on the borderline of getting a Green party dominated government.

All the same logistical/economic arguments against a Green Britain would be trotted out. Sure to be an economic disaster. Completely impractical.

But... if the voters asked for that, based on what it does for the quality of life/fibre of the nation, nothing to do with economic numbers, should one keep on having repeat elections until the 'right' answer is heard?

kabayiri

Moby wrote: »

Basically as the article says globalisation can mean all things to all people and whatever your politics you can have an angle. It's inevitable that national boundaries are going to become a thing of the past. The big issues of the future are AI and global warming, both can only effectively be addressed through international co-operation. For us that means our nearest neighbours. Nationalism, national identity and nativism just gets in the way. Totally agree that big corporations have a lot to answer for but again holding them to account can only be done through international co-operation. On a positive note most of the younger generation realise this. Sadly due to Brexit our younger generation may struggle to get access to the same opportunities as their equivalent in the EU.

If we have had ineffective 'international co-operation', as you put it, for over a quarter of a century, what makes you believe there will be some remarkable sea change in things?

Why should the EU hold sway over the global multi-nationals all of a sudden? I think it's potentially easier to buy influence in the EU political core, because they are more remote to their electorate.

Thrugelmir

kabayiri wrote: »

A widely available pool of general labour, EU wide, will over time push down wage levels of the locals across EU-land.

Labour , at least low skilled, is global too. Manufacturing moves to where the greatest profit can be made. The EU as a whole is now predominantly service based.

Joan_number_1_2

Moby wrote: »

..... Sadly due to Brexit our younger generation may struggle to get access to the same opportunities as their equivalent in the EU.

What bull.

By far most of our younger generation have never bothered to access these EU "opportunities". It's not (completely) down to apathy ... but to language IMHO; it's just so much easier for a British youngster to cope with higher education and/or new career opportunities in their native tongue.

The younger generation that might struggle to continue getting the same access as they currently get are the EU's younger generation who (as we all know; we can read statistics even if others cannot) flock here to attend higher education and employment in far, far greater numbers than those from Britain heading towards the EU.

Globally the UK is second only to the USA as destination of choice for international students. Interestingly Australia is third, proving (as I said earlier) that language has influence and that students for whatever reason (let's ignore for now the best universities ) want to further their education in English-speaking establishments.

Should I go on to mention how many EU workers have previously arrived and are still arriving in the UK? Statistics again show that far, far more come here than Brits go to work in the EU every year.

So no.
The younger generation which is potentially going to struggle the most will be the EU's younger generation. I wonder (if it does) if they will have the intelligence to understand that it is the fault of the EU and their flawed free movement?

BobQ

ukcarper wrote: »

The only people I hear saying they don't know what leave meant is remainers,

I would agree with you, but only if you accept that those asked what Leave meant gave many different answers which just proved the point ie Leave means what Leavers think it means.

Well if Leave supporters can propose different versions of Leave, why can't Remainers do the same?

Thrugelmir

BobQ wrote: »

I would agree with you, but only if you accept that those asked what Leave meant gave many different answers which just proved the point ie Leave means what Leavers think it means.

Well if Leave supporters can propose different versions of Leave, why can't Remainers do the same?

This whole issue is getting overthought. I'd hate this generation to have undertake the Normandy Landings that our forefathers did. Might as well raise the white flag. Blame the nanny state of Mr Brown......

ukcarper

BobQ wrote: »

I would agree with you, but only if you accept that those asked what Leave meant gave many different answers which just proved the point ie Leave means what Leavers think it means.

Well if Leave supporters can propose different versions of Leave, why can't Remainers do the same?

Yes but all did not want to be tied to four freedoms and ECJ in one way or another which staying in single market and customs union would achieve.