Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

gfplux

Cakeguts wrote: »

You seem to have conveniently forgotten that joining the EEC has turned out to be completely different to what people though they were joining in 1971. You could say that they were hoodwinked in the referendum in 1973 and then again in 1992.



The whole UK membership of the EU is non democratic. There was no referendum in 1992.

The whole Remain campaign seem to have conveniently forgotten that the UK public were not consulted about joining in 1992 and yet they claim that the Leave campaign believed lies without any evidence to back this up.

You just love history. While you are looking over your shoulder Britain is going over a cliff.

gfplux

Here is the list of the advantages of Britain leaving the EU.

Moby

gfplux wrote: »

Thank you Moby. A well thought out list of some of the advantages of Britain staying in the EU.
May I share this list?

Of course.

Enterprise_1701C

When we leave the eu

We can make trade deals on our own terms without having to worry about Spanish farmers etc, deals that include services and deals that are actually useful to us.

We get our own fisheries back and can legitimately stop the many eu boats that over fish them.

We can give contracts to British companies without having to allow eu companies to quote on them (as we had to with the passports)

We cannot be forced to take the euro that appears to be designed to destroy all economies it touches.

We cannot be forced to join Schengen (you know, the one that has destroyed relations between so many eu countries).

We can finally make our own decisions about the direction our country goes in.

We will not be forced to become part of the united states of Europe (ever closer union can only ever mean one thing if the eu still exists at that time)

We can pick and choose who we wish to allow into this country.

We will not have the ECJ saying we cannot remove people from this, the ECJ is less than neutral and basically is the eu telling us what to do.

Our parliament should be supreme, we should not have a foreign power telling them how to run the country.


I know all this will be shot down, and it is only a few of the advantages, I really do not want to hand the country to a bunch of idiots that seem to think they can do as they wish with no come-back. They have proved time and time again that if they want to do something they will, I have no doubt that if we stayed in we would have to succumb to being ruined by the euro, I have no doubt that we would have to have totally open borders and probably give eu citizens priority for everything, after all they seem to think they are so much better than us.

Joan_number_1_2

gfplux wrote: »

Here is the list of the advantages of Britain leaving the EU.

Ignoring or diregarding the benefits that have been repeatedly posted here does not mean they don't exist you know. It only makes you look more like a recalcitrant objector to those who voted to leave. There is another word for what I mean. It begins with the letter "t".

So many posts since I last posted on Friday afternoon.
It looks like as our pro EU contingent in this thread are seeing Brexit get nearer they like the look of the likely outcome less and less.

Herzlos

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

I know all this will be shot down, and it is only a few of the advantages

Thanks for the list. I disagree with almost all of it, but I'm not going to argue the point.

I really do not want to hand the country to a bunch of idiots that seem to think they can do as they wish with no come-back.

Like you've done with the Tories?

They have proved time and time again that if they want to do something they will

The Tories?

I have no doubt that if we stayed in we would have to succumb to being ruined by the euro, I have no doubt that we would have to have totally open borders and probably give eu citizens priority for everything, after all they seem to think they are so much better than us.

Ah. I doubt we'd be ruined by the Euro since we've opted out of it, or that we'd have totally open borders or give EU citizens (which would also be us) priority over anything.

ben501

gfplux wrote: »

Thank you Moby. A well thought out list of some of the advantages of Britain staying in the EU.
May I share this list?

Slightly confused as to why you're asking if you can share a copy and paste pre-referendum list.


At least change 'if we vote to leave' and 'if we leave' to 'when we leave'.


And while you're at it, probably worth sticking a few 'mights and maybes' in there.

Cakeguts

Herzlos wrote: »

I'm not making a "think of the children" argument, though your disregard for future generations is staggering. This isn't a tangential claim to appeal to emotion, but pointing out that the next generation will be clearly worse off and the majority of them (ignoring those too young for an opinion) don't want Brexit. They'll be the ones that need to deal with this mess.

My children aren't special; everyone's kids and grand kids and their kids and grandkids (If you believe Mogg) are going to be in the same boat. In fact mine won't be so badly affected; we're going to be quite well insulated from Brexit.

How many Leavers were swayed by lies? Who knows. But since you "won" with a 51.9% vote it'd only take 4% (700,000) of them to sway the result. If 700,000 Remainers can be duped or bribed into marching then I'd suggest the numbers of those swayed by Farage and decades of anti-EU propaganda would sway more, albeit in a less obvious way.

I used to believe all the anti-EU crap, too. There's no shame in being duped by expert liars.

There we go again. The Leavers believed lies. Yet last weekend there was a march full of remainers who didn't know what the march was about. So around 700,000 people who didn't understand what the march was for. The chances are that if they voted Remain as well they had no idea what they were voting for?


We are back to the US cult thing again. We are the chosen ones everyone else believed lies.



Then there is the myth of our children won't be able to study abroad. Of course they will if you pay for them to rather than expect the tax payers in the rest of the EU to pay for them. Or they won't be able to work abroad. People from the UK work in China, India, Africa, Dubai,etc none of these countries were members of the EU the last time I looked. So if they can work in non EU countries what will stop them working in EU countries?

Honey_Badger

Moby wrote: »

Reasons to stay in the EU :-
1. Trade. About 45 per cent of British trade is now tied up with the EU. It’s our biggest export market and I also like the imports: from German cars and French wine, to Belgian chocolates, Danish bacon and much more, all tariff free. And it is not just trade in goods at stake. The UK is increasingly a service economy and the EU concept of “mutual recognition” gives us a passport to sell services throughout the EU.

2. Domestic investment. The plain fact is that much UK company investment is heavily linked to having a guaranteed EU market of 27 other countries that we can openly export to. Why would I want to risk job losses and lower investment in the UK?

3. Foreign direct investment. The UK has traditionally been one of the biggest attractors of foreign direct investment in the EU. The reason is that we have a fairly competitive economy and guaranteed tariff-free access to the 27 other EU member states. If we vote to leave, much of the FDI, associated investment and jobs will disappear and go to competitors who do have EU access.

4. Immigration. The UK is a beneficiary of EU migration. A lot of EU citizens come to Britain and contribute skills and pay taxes. Yes, some abuse the system to unfairly claim social security benefits but the vast majority do not. Much of this migration means we are able to fill skills shortages in our hospitals, care services, and building and service industries.

5. Freedom of movement of capital and labour. I like the fact that, if I want to, I can take my pound notes, turn them into euros, and the UK government cannot stop me since capital controls are outlawed by the EU. I like the fact that, if I want to, I can find a job in another EU member state, and these countries have no right to stop me from doing so. I think it is great that UK businesses have the right to set up subsidiaries in other EU countries if they want to. Our kids have the right to work and study in these countries as well.

6. Jobs. Britain is a large trading nation and many British jobs would be put at risk if we were to leave the EU. A Brexit would mean lower domestic investment, lower FDI, and lower exports. All this translates into fewer jobs. Estimates of job losses vary from 500,000 to 3m. My best guesstimate is around 1m job losses over two years were a Brexit to occur.

7. The cost of living. Even for the vast majority who will keep their job, there is a real danger that prices will rise quite rapidly if we leave. First, the pound is likely to fall significantly, pushing up the price of imports. Second, the UK might be forced to apply tariffs to imported EU goods if we cannot negotiate a free trade arrangement that is acceptable to the World Trade Organisation. Third, EU competition keeps British firms competitive. Without EU competition, over time we would turn the clock back to the late 1960s and early 70s when the UK economy was very uncompetitive.

8. Peace and stability. There is an old adage that “trade knits nations together” making it much less likely that they will want to spend their time and resources fighting each other. Let’s remember that one of the reasons the EU (EEC as it was originally called) was formed in 1957 was to help reintegrate Germany into the European economy and make war between France and Germany unthinkable. In this respect, the EU has been an outstanding success. It was even awarded the Nobel Peace prize in 2012 in recognition of this.

9. Britain has more influence as an EU member. The Americans, Japanese and Chinese pay a lot more attention to the UK and our views because we are a member of the EU and can influence how it is run. The UK is simply not a big or strong enough economy to negotiate with the US, Japan or China as equals.

10. Safety and security. Sure, the Nato alliance is the primary guarantor of European security, but as members of the EU we are able to use law enforcement intelligence from the 27 other EU countries and have access to fingerprint and DNA information. Since 2004, using the European Arrest Warrant, over 1,000 suspects have faced justice in UK courts and over 7,000 have been extradited from the UK to face trial or serve a sentence.

11. Globalisation. I am in favour of globalisation and the benefits it brings, and being part of the EU is being part of the process of globalisation. I am fed up of hearing arguments from Little Englanders pretending that all would be fine and well if we left the EU. Things will be worse and potentially much worse.

12. Keeping the UK together. A Brexit would be a disaster for the unity of the UK since it is highly likely that Scotland and Wales would want to remain part of the EU. This could lead to them both having referendums to leave the UK followed by applications to rejoin the EU. That will mean years of further uncertainty, and we just have other priorities to worry about.

So you've just copied this in full from another website and made no reference to the original. Have you ever heard of copyright?

Don't you feel that it's dishonest to pass it off as your own?

Moby

Honey_Badger wrote: »

So you've just copied this in full from another website and made no reference to the original. Have you ever heard of copyright?

Don't you feel that it's dishonest to pass it off as your own?

Are you serious....that list was everywhere. The reasons are very well known and we argue about them every day on here. I never said it was my own. If it matters to you:-
http://www.cityam.com/243002/twelve-reasons-britain-is-better-off-remaining-a-member-of-the-eu


or
https://metro.co.uk/2016/06/22/10-reasons-to-vote-remain-in-the-eu-referendum-5955501/


or
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/four-compelling-reasons-should-stay-4467845