Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Herzlos

Cakeguts wrote: »

There we go again. The Leavers believed lies. Yet last weekend there was a march full of remainers who didn't know what the march was about. So around 700,000 people who didn't understand what the march was for. The chances are that if they voted Remain as well they had no idea what they were voting for?

Do you have any basis for the claim they didn't know what they were marching for? I asked a few pages ago and didn't get an answer.


Are you trying to claim that (a) the Leave campaign didn't lie and/or (b) no-one believed any of those lies?

We are back to the US cult thing again. We are the chosen ones everyone else believed lies.

The Leave campaign lied, that should be indisputable, even from their own mouths. "Possible promises" is my favourite one, re the £350m on the bus.
Remain over-egged the negatives, but I don't think they did anything that could be claimed was an outright lie, and certainly nothing like "We send £350m a week to the EU. Lets spend it on the NHS instead" when (a) we don't send anything like £350m/week to the EU and there was never any intent to give it to the the NHS.


"Only a fool would leave the single market"
"Why can't we be like Norway?"
"Easiest deal in human history"

And so on.


The only thing that Leave have promised that has been followed through is the blue passports. And we could have had them anyway.

Then there is the myth of our children won't be able to study abroad. Of course they will if you pay for them to rather than expect the tax payers in the rest of the EU to pay for them. Or they won't be able to work abroad. People from the UK work in China, India, Africa, Dubai,etc none of these countries were members of the EU the last time I looked. So if they can work in non EU countries what will stop them working in EU countries?

Fair point. They lose the ability to do those things easily, without needing sponsors, funding and paperwork. They lose the ability to do so without being discriminated against or having their status invalidated at a governments whim (like the Windrush thing here). They lose the ability to live and work in any of the EU27 whilst having the exact same legal status as a native resident.

Honey_Badger

Moby wrote: »

Are you serious....that list was everywhere. I never said it was my own. If it matters to you:-
http://www.cityam.com/243002/twelve-reasons-britain-is-better-off-remaining-a-member-of-the-eu

A breach of copyright might well matter to the site owners.

As for "I never said it was my own." unless you say it isn't your own how on earth does anyone know that. There's also your reply to gfplux granting permission to share it.

gardner1

Enterprise_1701C wrote: »

When we leave the eu

We can make trade deals on our own terms without having to worry about Spanish farmers etc, deals that include services and deals that are actually useful to us.

We get our own fisheries back and can legitimately stop the many eu boats that over fish them.

We can give contracts to British companies without having to allow eu companies to quote on them (as we had to with the passports)

We cannot be forced to take the euro that appears to be designed to destroy all economies it touches.

We cannot be forced to join Schengen (you know, the one that has destroyed relations between so many eu countries).

We can finally make our own decisions about the direction our country goes in.

We will not be forced to become part of the united states of Europe (ever closer union can only ever mean one thing if the eu still exists at that time)

We can pick and choose who we wish to allow into this country.

We will not have the ECJ saying we cannot remove people from this, the ECJ is less than neutral and basically is the eu telling us what to do.

Our parliament should be supreme, we should not have a foreign power telling them how to run the country.


I know all this will be shot down, and it is only a few of the advantages, I really do not want to hand the country to a bunch of idiots that seem to think they can do as they wish with no come-back. They have proved time and time again that if they want to do something they will, I have no doubt that if we stayed in we would have to succumb to being ruined by the euro, I have no doubt that we would have to have totally open borders and probably give eu citizens priority for everything, after all they seem to think they are so much better than us.

Looks so simple......if only the Remained would accept the result and move on instead of trying for best of three

Honey_Badger

Moby wrote: »

Are you serious....that list was everywhere. The reasons are very well known and we argue about them every day on here. I never said it was my own. If it matters to you:-
http://www.cityam.com/243002/twelve-reasons-britain-is-better-off-remaining-a-member-of-the-eu


or
https://metro.co.uk/2016/06/22/10-reasons-to-vote-remain-in-the-eu-referendum-5955501/


or
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/ampp3d/four-compelling-reasons-should-stay-4467845

It's pretty obvious in your edited post that the two additional links are different lists not the same ones as the original.

Moby

Honey_Badger wrote: »

It's pretty obvious in your edited post that the two additional links are different lists not the same ones as the original.

Yes I know that!.....I'm pointing out there's loads of lists on the internet of 'reasons to stay in the EU'....some of them 12, some 10 and some 4 but very powerful reasons and I'm quite happy to post them! If someone comes up with a list of 50 reasons....I may even post that as well. Do you think I'll go to prison for it? i don't think I will because copyright doesn't apply to ideas or facts...it usually applies to images,videos, creative works like novels etc.

Herzlos

gardner1 wrote: »

Looks so simple......if only the Remained would accept the result and move on instead of trying for best of three

If only (a) we knew what the result meant, (b) we knew what Leaving meant and (c) Leavers could convince half the voting population that they were wrong.


I've been asking Leavers to convince me for 2 years now and I've got nowhere. No credible reason to be out of the EU that is more nuanced than "EU BAD".

Honey_Badger

Moby wrote: »

Yes I know that!.....I'm pointing out there's loads of lists on the internet of 'reasons to stay in the EU'....some of them 12, some 10 and some 4 but very powerful reasons and I'm quite happy to post them!

You're perfectly entitled to post them, but you should make sure that they are identifiable as extracts from an article, and where you got it from. Otherwise it is a breach of Copyright and people can think it's your own work.

Honey_Badger

Moby wrote: »

If someone comes up with a list of 50 reasons....I may even post that as well. Do you think I'll go to prison for it?

In Copyright there is a expectation of brief quotes, not pages of copy and paste.

As for prison I doubt it, but I'm sure many of us will come and visit if it happens

mrginge

Herzlos wrote: »

If only (a) we knew what the result meant, (b) we knew what Leaving meant and (c) Leavers could convince half the voting population that they were wrong.


I've been asking Leavers to convince me for 2 years now and I've got nowhere. No credible reason to be out of the EU that is more nuanced than "EU BAD".

After two years don’t you think you should have moved on a bit?

This need to be convinced all looks a bit desperate tbh. Like you’re so heartbroken that people don’t think like wot you do that your whole life has become paralysed with deep seated insecurities.

Fortunately most remainers have got a grip but I guess it’s tough for some.

ukcarper

Herzlos wrote: »

If only (a) we knew what the result meant, (b) we knew what Leaving meant and (c) Leavers could convince half the voting population that they were wrong.


I've been asking Leavers to convince me for 2 years now and I've got nowhere. No credible reason to be out of the EU that is more nuanced than "EU BAD".

The only people I hear saying they don't know what leave meant is remainers,