Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

melanzana

wunferall wrote: »

Ah, the voice of reason returns.
:rotfl:

Well it is a response, (I'm taking it as tongue in cheek really) but nothing else positive from anyone else is evident, just the usual people have spoken mantra, to be fair to that poster.

Cakeguts

wunferall wrote: »

There's no point any of us trying to tell you if you're already ignoring everything that has been written and said, is there?

I wonder if you stand at a football match and when your team have lost, stamping your feet and insisting that extra time keeps on being played until they win?

Or when your election vote counts for nothing because your council/government goes to the opposition if you petition them for a recount or - failing that - you harangue everybody you can think of and vocalise your complaints?


Please don't be just another "nutjob" as you put it that insists on being a pessimist when the people of this country voted for optimism.

They aren't "nutjobs" if they were we wouldn't have such a problem. They are the chosen people. The only ones who know what is good for the UK. They have to persuade all the rest of us who are in "the dark" about what is good for us which is only what they want. What other people want doesn't count because they are the chosen people they know everything that is right for the UK going into the future. Does any of that sound familiar?



It bothers me a lot. That overiding sense of entitlement and being right about what we need to do even if we don't agree with them.


The point is that unless they can see into the future they have no idea what is likely to happen in the UK after Brexit. As the investment companies say present performance is no indication of future performance.



What worries me is that these undemocratic people are trying to get what they want without any regard for what others might want and without any form of democracy.



The people on this march do not support democracy. If they did they would not have gone. This is not freedom of speech it is something much darker. Freedom of speech means that you have to accept the views of others that are not the same as your own. These people on this march do not accept the views of others. They are the chosen ones they have got "it" right.



The marchers today reminded me of a cross between the crusades (the Christian faith is the only correct one) and an American cult (we are the chosen ones you have got it all wrong and are not entitled to this.)



There are remainers in other places on the internet who are still saying that the Leavers voted the way they did because they were lied to. How on earth do they think that they know that all the people who voted leave voted that way because they were lied to? A normal person can see that this idea is ridiculous. So why do they believe this? Why aren't they questioning the fact that they are being told this is the reason but it IS also a lie because no one can possibly know the answer to what people were thinking when they voted.

melanzana

Cakeguts wrote: »

They aren't "nutjobs" if they were we wouldn't have such a problem. They are the chosen people. The only ones who know what is good for the UK. They have to persuade all the rest of us who are in "the dark" about what is good for us which is only what they want. What other people want doesn't count because they are the chosen people they know everything that is right for the UK going into the future. Does any of that sound familiar?



It bothers me a lot. That overiding sense of entitlement and being right about what we need to do even if we don't agree with them.


The point is that unless they can't see into the future they have no idea what is likely to happen in the UK after Brexit. As the investment companies say present performance is no indication of future performance.



What worries me is that these undemocratic people are trying to get what they want without any regard for what others might want and without any form of democracy.



The people on this march do not support democracy. If they did they would not have gone. This is not freedom of speech it is something much darker. Freedom of speech means that you have to accept the views of others that are not the same as your own. These people on this march do not accept the views of others. They are the chosen ones they have got "it" right.



The marchers today reminded me of a cross between the crusades (the Christian faith is the only correct one) and an American cult (we are the chosen ones you have got it all wrong and are not entitled to this.)



There are remainers in other places on the internet who are still saying that the Leavers voted the way they did because they were lied to. How on earth do they think that they know that all the people who voted leave voted that way because they were lied to? A normal person can see that this idea is ridiculous. So why do they believe this? Why aren't they questioning the fact that they are being told this is the reason but it IS also a lie because no one can possibly know the answer to what people were thinking when they voted.



So based on a lie they think that they are entitled to question why people voted leave. Only the chosen ones could possibly think like this.

Any positives for Brexit yet dear Cakeguts?

OK, just hubris.

melanzana

wunferall wrote: »

We've been through this and the general consensus of opinion is that the UK had no real power as an EU member,

So the mighty UK had NO power within the EU?

How much power will they have outside it pray tell? And please back up your assertions with fact not hyperbole.

Masomnia

wunferall wrote: »

700,000
:rotfl:
Utter carp and everybody knows it.

Diane Abbott has personally verified the figures.

Masomnia

wunferall wrote: »

I wonder if you stand at a football match and when your team have lost, stamping your feet and insisting that extra time keeps on being played until they win?

It worked for Alex Fergusson :footie:

Cakeguts

melanzana wrote: »

So that's another "I haven't got a clue what the benefits are but the people have spoken" comment. Honestly.

Can you point out what optimism we should have? I mean in real terms not soundbytes.

Will we immediately have control of borders
Will we immediately have friction free trading
Will we immediately have all the rules that keep us safe like employment law, food regs etc. etc.
Will we immediately have freedom to go and live in the EU and enjoy the reciprocal arrangements that currently apply.
Will our kids be able to avail of free or cheaper University Education anywhere in the EU
Will our kids be able to move freely and gain experience within the EU
Will our kids be able to avail of the Erasmus Program

Those are just some of the things we will lose on exit day. Unless there is a deal and a transition period. But will all be gone when the transition period is up.

I'm very sad that this will happen. I am not an agitator, just an ordinary Joe and I am quite fearful.

That is purely because there are NO positives being put out there for us.

If you can point some out to me, that would be great. Thanks.

The Schengen zone is dead. The refugee crisis did for it. There are borders in the East European countries. Borders everywhere in the EU will revert to how they were before the EU was invented it is already happening.



I don't know what friction free trading is but I do know that agriculture is dictated to by Brussels on how much it can produce and what.



Regarding the food and jobs laws what are zero hours contracts? I would suggest that you look at the article on just eat on the BBC about safety of food. That is happening when we are still in the EU. I also rather think that there have been some horse meat scandals involving EU countries so that is no benefit to us.


Number 4 is wrong unless you have a lot of money and don't need to work. At present France is a member of the EU. If you go to live in France you need to speak French to get a job. If you go there to retire you will have to take out private health insurance because France will not allow you to have their version of free health care if you are not paying all the French taxes. This has not changed since before the EU was invented. So no difference there then. No one wants to go to Poland because there are very few jobs which is why their citizens move to other countries to find work. So what you mean is that you can move to some countries if you happen to speak the language and don't need to work.



The answer to number 5 is no because the cost of living in most countries outways the reduction in university fees making it more expensive to study abroad.



No 6 No change people have always been able to work in European countries. They did it before the EEC had been invented and a long time before the EU had even been though of.


No 7 The Erasmus programme includes non EU countries. You can study in Iceland for example or Turkey.



Which means that there is no need to worry about Brexit.



The advantages are that we won't have the whims of non elected officials in Brussels imposed on us.

Cakeguts

melanzana wrote: »

Any positives for Brexit yet dear Cakeguts?

OK, just hubris.

This is the point you see. For me personally Brexit is a big problem but that doesn't make me special enough to try to stop others from wanting to leave. I have a big vested interest in remaining. But I didn't go on that march because I believe that the rights of others are as important as my rights.



All I see about the remainers on that march were the vested interests of the people on the march. They were not interested in the UK they were only interested in what they personally might lose. That is not a good reason for a second vote. That is a very good reason for not having one. Trying to get another vote because of what you might lose is selfish and entitled.



The EU is divided between Eastern European countries and Western European countries it is not united. It is not a union any more. It is better to leave now before the divisions start to increase.

Cakeguts

melanzana wrote: »

So the mighty UK had NO power within the EU?

How much power will they have outside it pray tell? And please back up your assertions with fact not hyperbole.

OK so it won't make any difference but at least we are no paying for that no difference. The UK will be shopping around to join trade with people who don't charge it for for having silly laws imposed on it.

Cakeguts

wunferall wrote: »

700,000
:rotfl:
Utter carp and everybody knows it.
Yes there are lots but the numbers are estimates by organisers, so (being generous) divide by 10.
Worse (for remainers) is that the numbers are irrelevant when so many have been paid in some form or other to attend; that makes a mockery of the "protest".
With how often team remain are being proven wrong they are probably not afraid of further mockery.
:whistle:


Governments should quite rightly listen to the result of an official referendum and certainly not to a funded protest.
Governments that don't listen to the people tend not to stay as a government for very long and the largest group from the referendum were .... no matter what remainers try to say ..... those in favour of Brexit.
:T

The organisers are good manipulaters which is why they paid some people to go. I don't suppose that many of the people on the march realised that they were being manipulated.