Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

ukcarper

melanzana wrote: »

There will never be another stay/go ref.

The march today was to grant people the right to vote on any deal/no deal agreed by May et al.

I get the feeling that the march today was misinterpreted as a demand for another ref. It wasn't, it was just ordinary people wishing to have a say on whatever is decided. I personally think that is reasonable. But I have no doubt that my view on that is not welcome here. I don't care.

So you would be happy if vote was for deal or no deal.

I voted remain and here is a list of people I hold responsible for this you will see many people on rally are on it. https://www.quora.com/Did-all-UK-Members-of-Parliament-MPs-vote-on-the-European-Union-Referendum-Act-2015-and-does-a-record-of-how-each-MP-voted-exist

Cakeguts

melanzana wrote: »

There will never be another stay/go ref.

The march today was to grant people the right to vote on any deal/no deal agreed by May et al.

I get the feeling that the march today was misinterpreted as a demand for another ref. It wasn't, it was just ordinary people wishing to have a say on whatever is decided. I personally think that is reasonable. But I have no doubt that my view on that is not welcome here. I don't care.

That isn't what the people who were interviewed by the BBC said. They said that they were there to get another vote.


If just proves that people went to that march without knowing what it was about.

melanzana

ukcarper wrote: »

So you would be happy if vote was for deal or no deal.

I voted remain and here is a list of people I hold responsible for this you will see many people on rally are on it. https://www.quora.com/Did-all-UK-Members-of-Parliament-MPs-vote-on-the-European-Union-Referendum-Act-2015-and-does-a-record-of-how-each-MP-voted-exist

There is nothing we can do about who voted to have a referendum or pushed for yes or no right now.

But to be fair, two years is a VERY long time in politics, and with hindsight, and information on what is ACTUALLY going to be agreed (if there is no crash out Hard Brexit), I really do think people should be given the right to agree or disagree with the terms of any deal.

It doesn't matter what the result is, the important thing is people should be INFORMED as to the implications of any decision.

It is all far too important for people's lives and their children's future to be left up to a blatantly (IMV) incompetent and infighting Government to decide on our futures now. They got one chance, and it is painful to watch. The people need a second chance to decide on the outcome of the first decision.

I have yet to see even one positive coming out of all this really.

I am pragmatic, and democracy rules, but in this instance it possibly needs another vote on the outcome.

melanzana

Cakeguts wrote: »

That isn't what the people who were interviewed by the BBC said. They said that they were there to get another vote.

Another vote on what though? Can you quote me anything that says the marchers were looking for another referendum, or a vote on the outcome of negotiations?

LHW99

I really do think people should be given the right to agree or disagree with the terms of any deal.

The problem with any referendum is that the wording has to be clear, and preferably giving a binary choice. So that leaves:
Accept the deal / reject the deal. If its rejected, who makes the EU re-negotiate? The likelihood is that "reject the deal" = "no deal"

ukcarper

melanzana wrote: »

There is nothing we can do about who voted to have a referendum or pushed for yes or no right now.

But to be fair, two years is a VERY long time in politics, and with hindsight, and information on what is ACTUALLY going to be agreed (if there is no crash out Hard Brexit), I really do think people should be given the right to agree or disagree with the terms of any deal.

It doesn't matter what the result is, the important thing is people should be INFORMED as to the implications of any decision.

It is all far too important for people's lives and their children's future to be left up to a blatantly (IMV) incompetent and infighting Government to decide on our futures now. They got one chance, and it is painful to watch. The people need a second chance to decide on the outcome of the first decision.

I have yet to see even one positive coming out of all this really.

I am pragmatic, and democracy rules, but in this instance it possibly needs another vote on the outcome.

It shows how out of touch they were in 2015 and they still are.

You didn't answer my question would you be happy if the vote was accept deal or leave with no deal.

I think that the remain supporting MPs especially Labours position is weaking our position and playing into the hands of hard brexiter.

Thrugelmir

melanzana wrote: »

Yes indeed they will be shopping around but probably should have started negotiations with these countries the minute Article 50 was invoked.

As current members the UK isn't allowed to.

This has been known from the outset.

Cakeguts

melanzana wrote: »

But we can reflect and think it out again surely

The ineptitude of the Government is appalling.

There will be a deal but it will not be what exiters want. Every deal has a compromise.

I can see the transition period extending to 10 years in order for UK to finalise Trade Deals. You know as well as I do that the Canada Deal for example took years to agree.

But I suppose if the UK is leaving the EU standards will slip, and any port in a storm will apply to get the deal signed.

In the meantime, UK pays the EU its contribution.

Win for whom now?

The EU is blocking all deals for the simple reason that it knows that if it gives anything to the UK, Italy, Spain and Greece will probably all leave as well. It isn't for want of trying Cameron tried to get a better deal for the UK and the EU just said no.



The reason why the EU are blocking all deals is because of the loss of power and money that the UK represents to the EU. Someone has to pay for the Brussels gravy train and luckily it won't be the UK eventually anymore.

Thrugelmir

melanzana wrote: »

But UK will be chucking Billions into the EU during the transition period anyway. With no guarantees that the exit will be a success either.

Do you think that the "people" should be allowed to have a vote on this months budget? Or welfare reform? Or subsidy of housing schemes?

How about Council Budgets as well?

People are elected\employed to do a job.

Mob rule isn't democracy.

melanzana

LHW99 wrote: »

The problem with any referendum is that the wording has to be clear, and preferably giving a binary choice. So that leaves:
Accept the deal / reject the deal. If its rejected, who makes the EU re-negotiate? The likelihood is that "reject the deal" = "no deal"

Yes, I see what you mean, it is all just a total mess no matter what side you are on.

And I agree that the wording is critical.

Do you wish the Brexit deal to be renegotiated Yes/No. might be an option.

UK is not used to having referenda because there is no written Constitution, so they should ask the Irish PM (Taoiseach) Mr. Varadker for some tips. LOL :T