Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

StevieJ

Zero_Gravitas wrote: »

Ah - starting to make sense now. So when the U.K. government makes a threat (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/13/uk-threatens-pull-galileo-project-eu-rejects-calls-full-access/) it!!!8217;s just being firm in our negotiating position; but when the EU makes a statement of fact (as per your example above) it!!!8217;s a !!!8220;threat!!!8221;...

All you!!!8217;re doing is exposing the hypocrisy of the Brexiteers. We must presume in the absence of anything, you have no examples of the EU making threats.

Brexiteer- We want a Referendum (Democracy in action).

Remainer - We want a Referendum, when the effects of Brexit are better known with due consideration to available options ( You are trying to undermine the will of the British electorate)

ukcarper

StevieJ wrote: »

Brexiteer- We want a Referendum (Democracy in action).

Remainer - We want a Referendum, when the effects of Brexit are better known with due consideration to available options ( You are trying to undermine the will of the British electorate)

It's not quite as simple as that though is it, what happens after we leave is speculation nobody can say with any certainty what the effects will be. If after we have left I think it is perfectly OK to campaign for another referendum.

Sapphire

fatbeetle wrote: »

Straight out on a no-deal ticket, and watch the EU back-peddle like all b#ggery on it's threats.

Among all this talk of 'negotiation', I wonder where the issue of sovereignty lies? I don't think a large proportion of British people would accept loss of sovereignty and absorption into some undemocratic 'superstate' being planned by bureaucrats in the EU organisation with an almost fanatical zeal. The world has had enough of empires, which serve only to oppress the individual.

Perhaps some nations (like Germany, which didn't even exist until relatively recently and therefore does not have the hundreds of years, or millennia, of nationhood) would find such a superstate desirable, particularly if they are the ones leading it. However, I don't think this will be acceptable for nations with a very long history and a strong identity (there are also several such nations in continental Europe).

BobQ

ukcarper wrote: »

Do you really think we can just call the whole thing off.

I think if the UK asked for it the EU would agree. If you think about it the EU is going to be disrupted by this and the costs to it will not be trivial.

However, I accept that this will not happen purely because of the resultant split in the ruling party that would ensue

ukcarper

BobQ wrote: »

I think if the UK asked for it the EU would agree. If you think about it the EU is going to be disrupted by this and the costs to it will not be trivial.

However, I accept that this will not happen purely because of the resultant split in the ruling party that would ensue

I'm not so sure they would I think they would be looking to reduce our concessions Calling if off would not only damage the Tories, I think Labour would lose a very large number of votes.

BobQ

Tromking wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/02/improve-emergency-brake-offer-to-stop-brexit-says-french-senator

As talk of another referendum becomes louder, talk of concessions to the UK on FOM is mooted. Just like what I said!

An interesting article suggesting a credible option is the UK remaining in the EU with modification of FOM or leaving but remaining in the EEA with a similar solution.

http://www.kymcohealthcare.com/?q=products/show/4

It seems the tide is turning for a second referendum now.

But still the potential for an unholy mess

BobQ

ukcarper wrote: »

I'm not so sure they would I think they would be looking to reduce our concessions, it would not just damage the Tories if it was a called of I think Labour would lose a very large number of votes.

After the way that the Tories have led us down the Brexit tunnel of uncertainty and Labour has led us nowhere, does anyone care about the careers of here today gone tomorrow politicians. Both parties have many remainers and would survive. Its leadership would have to fall on their swords perhaps.

Thrugelmir

BobQ wrote: »

But still the potential for an unholy mess

In reality as with life. People will simply get on with it. The electorate are going to be around far longer than the politicians involved. Reprecussions within the EU may well see many heads falls.

ukcarper

BobQ wrote: »

After the way that the Tories have led us down the Brexit tunnel of uncertainty and Labour has led us nowhere, does anyone care about the careers of here today gone tomorrow politicians. Both parties have many remainers and would survive. Its leadership would have to fall on their swords perhaps.

The question is where would all the leave voters votes go we could be consigned to years of hung parliaments, which in itself might not be a bad thing but I'm not sure it would work well with current parties.

kabayiri

BobQ wrote: »

...
It seems the tide is turning for a second referendum now.
...

Lots of talk about second referendum, but little detail.

Would it be run on the same winning margin terms as the last one? This is a cause of resentment amongst some, I believe.

So, if we said 55/45 margin and the Remain option won by 52/48, what then?

Would we know the Remain terms up front, or is it guesswork again?