Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Arklight

kabayiri wrote: »

You've still got FOM.

If 1m+ Poles can find a better home in pot holes ville, surely you can find one over there.

The thing you people have never understood is that it isn't actually that easy to emigrate to many EU countries.

You can't just turn up in the Netherlands and expect to live there, for example. For a Brit to become a Dutch resident they would have to be able to speak Dutch and demonstrate doing so, have a job, and a place to live. They don't have automatic recourse to the Dutch welfare stare, housing, or a right to remain otherwise.

Something the UK has never bothered to enforce.

When Cameron was striding pointlessly around Europe with the Daily Mail readership squawking at him from the UK like a trailer full of demented red faced little monkeys, he was told quite properly to just get the UK to start exercising the powers of settlement it already has.

gfplux

Herzlos wrote: »

Will you hold Leave to the same standards?

I'd be all for insisting on a 55/45 split, but I'm not sure what'd happen if it was narrower than that given the time constraints. So a simple majority would be the most pragmatic.

I think the resentment revolves around claims that a 51.9% result is a clear indication of anything.

Surely IF there were a further referendum the remain would have to command a 70/30 win.
Otherwise how can the EU ever trust the result.
Anything less than an overwhelming win for Remain would not convince anyone that Britain would be an openly declared Trojan Horse and should not be allowed inside the EU.

cogito

Arklight wrote: »

I have just returned from a driving holiday in Europe. It was lovely driving around the clean, orderly, towns, cities and villages of affordable houses populated by affluent, educated and level headed people. People who are used to functioning healthcare systems, public transport that isn't designed to be a choking mess that only benefits private shareholders, and Education that is treated as something that benefits everyone, not as an opportunity to enact some bizarre ideological war against young people.

Of course it was great returning home to England too, the bone jarring potholes from the crumbling litter strewn roads, the right wing press spewing hatred from every orifice, the constant fear of being out of work and how to service my enormous mortgage for my jaw droppingly over priced house. At least I have the results of my health check to look forward to, except the NHS can't find the results.

You skipped France this year then?

kabayiri

Arklight wrote: »

The thing you people have never understood is that it isn't actually that easy to emigrate to many EU countries.
...

Tsk, excuses, excuses.

I have actually worked in Brussels; Paris; a little in Frankfurt.

Gfplux managed it !

vivatifosi

kabayiri wrote: »

Tsk, excuses, excuses.

I have actually worked in Brussels; Paris; a little in Frankfurt.

Gfplux managed it !

Genuine question...do you think that people with your skill set will be able to do that post Brexit?

I gather from what you've said that you fall into the high skill category and that most people's fears are around people moving here with low skills; however I do worry that the movement of high skilled people to EU countries may become harder as we will be outside of an already large labour pool.

kabayiri

vivatifosi wrote: »

Genuine question...do you think that people with your skill set will be able to do that post Brexit?

I gather from what you've said that you fall into the high skill category and that most people's fears are around people moving here with low skills; however I do worry that the movement of high skilled people to EU countries may become harder as we will be outside of an already large labour pool.

Genuine answer. My own circumstance illustrates the need for fluid and temporary labour movement. I went to fulfil specific roles, and when the requirement ended, the time was right to return. It was a narrower interpretation of freedom of labour. FOM goes beyond this.

I do think the EU were on to something with the basic ideas behind FOM. The concept of movement for work across a larger area is actually a good one. It became too ambitious though.

Stilll..moot point now, it seems.

phillw

gfplux wrote: »

Surely IF there were a further referendum the remain would have to command a 70/30 win.
Otherwise how can the EU ever trust the result.
Anything less than an overwhelming win for Remain would not convince anyone that Britain would be an openly declared Trojan Horse and should not be allowed inside the EU.

Two points.

1. I'm pretty confident that remain could win with a majority of over 70. Now that all the brexiters promises have been revealed as lies necessary to con people into voting to leave the EU, then it's only the racists left & I am optimistic that there aren't really enough racists in the UK.

2. What you're saying makes no sense at all. If 70/30 is what it should be, then the original referendum doesn't meet that objective either & we are prepared to throw the UK towards 50 years of pain (according to Reese Mogg) over it.

You should watch Stewart Lees Content Provider on iplayer. He explains it much better than I ever can. Come back and tell me which of the three types of person who backs brexit that you are.

vivatifosi wrote: »

Genuine question...do you think that people with your skill set will be able to do that post Brexit?

I gather from what you've said that you fall into the high skill category and that most people's fears are around people moving here with low skills; however I do worry that the movement of high skilled people to EU countries may become harder as we will be outside of an already large labour pool.

Right, when the EU takes control of it's borders and restricts access to jobs from "those British coming over here and stealing our jobs" then it's going to be much harder. I'm not sure why leavers undermine their own argument by denying it. If controlling your borders to prevent immigrants coming is such a good plan, then WHY WOULDN'T THE EU DO IT TOO????????

The highly skilled argument doesn't cut it, we already announced we were replacing all those brown faced doctors with english looking ones. The will of the british people is to stop immigrants coming "with their skills", you're an idiot to think that other countries won't descend into a political tit for tat as that is what negotiating is all about & what the EU was setup to prevent.

fatbeetle

Arklight wrote: »

I have just returned from a driving holiday in Europe. It was lovely driving around the clean, orderly, towns, cities and villages of affordable houses populated by affluent, educated and level headed people. People who are used to functioning healthcare systems, public transport that isn't designed to be a choking mess that only benefits private shareholders, and Education that is treated as something that benefits everyone, not as an opportunity to enact some bizarre ideological war against young people.

Of course it was great returning home to England too, the bone jarring potholes from the crumbling litter strewn roads, the right wing press spewing hatred from every orifice, the constant fear of being out of work and how to service my enormous mortgage for my jaw droppingly over priced house. At least I have the results of my health check to look forward to, except the NHS can't find the results.

People only see what they are prepared to see

Ralph Waldo Emerson

I'm sure that if I took a driving holiday on the continent (Australia, China, and Indonesia, are more on my agenda,) I would avoid the poverty ridden hell holes, and immigrant over-run areas too. You were on a H-O-L-I-D-A-Y, did you not notice? Your perceptions of teh UK are likewise coloured by your prejudices.

ukcarper

phillw wrote: »

Two points.

1. I'm pretty confident that remain could win with a majority of over 70. Now that all the brexiters promises have been revealed as lies necessary to con people into voting to leave the EU, then it's only the racists left & I am optimistic that there aren't really enough racists in the UK.

2. What you're saying makes no sense at all. If 70/30 is what it should be, then the original referendum doesn't meet that objective either & we are prepared to throw the UK towards 50 years of pain (according to Reese Mogg) over it.

You should watch Stewart Lees Content Provider on iplayer. He explains it much better than I ever can. Come back and tell me which of the three types of person who backs brexit that you are.



Right, when the EU takes control of it's borders and restricts access to jobs from "those British coming over here and stealing our jobs" then it's going to be much harder. I'm not sure why leavers undermine their own argument by denying it. If controlling your borders to prevent immigrants coming is such a good plan, then WHY WOULDN'T THE EU DO IT TOO????????

The highly skilled argument doesn't cut it, we already announced we were replacing all those brown faced doctors with english looking ones. The will of the british people is to stop immigrants coming "with their skills", you're an idiot to think that other countries won't descend into a political tit for tat as that is what negotiating is all about & what the EU was setup to prevent.

I think like many people you are really over estimating how many people would now vote remain, I know many people who voted leave infact the vast majority of people I know voted leave and they have not changed their mind. Although I voted remain I would have to look carefully at what remain would mean as it looks to me many people in EU commission are acting idealistic rather than in the benefit of member states

kabayiri

ukcarper wrote: »

I think like many people you are really over estimating how many people would now vote remain, I know many people who voted leave infact the vast majority of people I know voted leave and they have not changed their mind. Although I voted remain I would have to look carefully at what remain would mean as it looks to me many people in EU commission are acting idealistic rather than in the benefit of member states

It might sound contrary, but I'm open to a Leave or Remain should there be another vote.

However, I want to hear from the EU next time. What is it *exactly* they plan for the future, and how would UK now fit into those plans.

I've no problem with those who want a much more integrated EU, but just be open about it.