Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

andrewf75

cogito wrote: »

We have managed to trade quite successfully with the US for more than 200 years without any kind of trade deal. Why do we need one now?

We don’t, but a lot of Tory Brexiteers in government are very keen to do these deals to try and offset any lost trade with the EU

Filo25

andrewf75 wrote: »

We don’t, but a lot of Tory Brexiteers in government are very keen to do these deals to try and offset any lost trade with the EU

Yep, I thought this was the core of the whole "Global Britain" argument, we are now free to go out and sign deals with everyone else in the world, not dependant on the sclerotic EU to do it.

Joan_number_1_2

kingstreet wrote: »

Wow!

We're winning in a "taller than Danny Devito" contest.

The EU have been doing just that for years, but hey ho!
If you don't like honest facts & figures blame those remainers here who insist we're bottom of the pile.
We're not.
Not by a long way.

Joan_number_1_2

It really does looks like those of us who aren't in awe of the EU had better be a bit more careful.
Another journalist who was working on exposing corruption in the EU has been murdered ..... whilst in the EU.
That makes three this year .
:eek:

Herzlos

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

It really does looks like those of us who aren't in awe of the EU had better be a bit more careful.
Another journalist who was working on exposing corruption in the EU has been murdered ..... whilst in the EU.
That makes three this year .
:eek:

Have you got any citations for this? It sounds like the sort of thing that the anti-EU mob would have been screaming about but I've not heard anything.

kingstreet

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

The EU have been doing just that for years, but hey ho!
If you don't like honest facts & figures blame those remainers here who insist we're bottom of the pile.
We're not.
Not by a long way.

Last time someone posted similar stats, I said the same thing.

Neither is anything to write home about.

Moby

It is clear and always has been that Barnier represents 27 Countries who are united . He speaks with one voice while negotiating with another party !
May cannot even claim to represent 4 Countries or the Country she resides or the Parliament she governs or the Party she leads !


If Brexit is such a fantastic idea, then why do we need the EU to cooperate?

andrewf75

Joan_number_1 wrote: »

It really does looks like those of us who aren't in awe of the EU

The truth is though that virtually no remainers love the EU as much as leavers hate it. For most remainers it’s a pragmatic position, they weighed up the pros and cons and came down on the side of remain. I’d suggest quite a few leavers didn’t do that or even recognise any pros. That’s one of the biggest differences between the two sides. Those who call the remain side EUphiles and the like are as naiive as those remainers who label leavers as racists.

kingstreet

There is little point remainers putting logical/common sense and economic/financial arguments across when the leaver decision making was mostly emotional.
And I don't mean emotional in a perjorative sense.

This was from January 2018. I'm only posting the relevant section as I disagree with the conclusions. This isn't about right & wrong it's about totally different mindsets on each side and how they will never be able to persuade each other.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/the-brexit-identity-why-facts-wont-win-the-remain_uk_5a6f91b8e4b068bb3d91dc93

The Brexit Identity: Why Facts Won't Win The Remain Argument

Last weekend the Guardian published the results of a poll looking into how Brexit opinions may have changed since the referendum. They revealed that there is a majority across almost all demographic groups that want a second referendum. But what the Guardian poll reveals goes beyond the simple change in opinions, it goes a long way to confirming what some people have been saying for a long time, as to why the Leave campaign succeeded, and the actual motivations behind the Brexit voters. It was all about identity – and it is only on this basis that any Remain argument can have any hope of success.

We already knew that the retired and the elderly swung the poll, and this is even more stark with these results where a majority for Leave only appears after the age of 65 or retired. And, as is confirmed by the employment status, the majority of current and future taxpayers would vote for Remain.

Where we start to see the motive behind voting Leave is with the questions about the economic impact of Brexit. Only the retired and over 65s believe, by a small margin, that this will be positive. This is even starker when it comes to the effect on personal finances. Only 15% of the total believes that the effect will be positive (17% in the age range 65-74) whilst 29% believe that the effect will be negative. So the majority of Leave voters believed that Brexit would have a negative effect on the economy and their personal finances, but still voted for it anyway. Why would a majority of the elderly, retired, non-tax payers (thereby reliant on those of us in society who do still pay tax) vote for something that would negatively effect the finances of the country as a whole and themselves in particular?

The next question provides the answer. When asked whether Brexit would have a positive or negative effect on ‘the British way of life’, the over 65’s are the only group to respond positively. It is possible to conclude from this that a substantial proportion of this demographic would sacrifice the well-being of the country and their fellow citizens, even their own financial stability in order to protect their received cultural identity from a perceived threat.

Leavers are prepared to accept being financially worse off themselves and they don't just accept it will adversely financially affect others...

Tromking

andrewf75 wrote: »

The truth is though that virtually no remainers love the EU as much as leavers hate it. For most remainers it’s a pragmatic position, they weighed up the pros and cons and came down on the side of remain. I’d suggest quite a few leavers didn’t do that or even recognise any pros. That’s one of the biggest differences between the two sides. Those who call the remain side EUphiles and the like are as naiive as those remainers who label leavers as racists.

One of the reasons I voted leave was my view that pragmatism should not trump democratic accountability. Happy to concede that others feel differently though.