Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Zero_Gravitas

Although to add a bit of balance:

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jacob-rees-mogg-will-flee-the-country-if-conservative-party-abandons-brexit_uk_59d3a18fe4b048a443255014

There’s a very strong argument for abandoning the whole thing and staying in...

Arklight

Ballard wrote: »

The data on this poll is quite startling but it’s only based on 1,466 people. I would like to see a poll of 50,000 people overseen by both camps so that there could be no claims of impropriety. If that gave similar results then I would change my viewpoint on a second referendum.

If it became clear that a significant number of people had changed their minds then Brexit would demonstratably no longer be ‘the will of the people’ it would simply be a snapshot of what some thought at a specific point.

If it’s the will of the people a second referendum won’t make any difference to the result.

If it’s the will of a bunch of racists and elderly right wingers who will be comprehensively outvoted three to one in a rerun by people who realise what’s at stake, then that’s a bit different.

mayonnaise

Tromking wrote: »

It’s going to be interesting to see how the seismic shift toward far right/fascist politics on mainland Europe manifests itself in the new European Parliament.

If there is a seismic shift, it's a shift in policy from previous rabid anti-EU parties towards a more pragmatic pro-EU position.

Today, Syriza is a docile pro-EU government.

The new Italian government has already stopped talking about leaving the EU or the euro

In France, Le Pen now says, "We can improve the daily life of the French without leaving Europe or the euro."

Why is that?
Because the EU is more popular than ever with EU citizens.

Explaining her change of opinion, she admits, "We have heard the French. "And not just the French: support for the EU around the continent is at its highest since 1983

Why is that?
Because of Brexit.

Boris Johnson will remain in history as a European hero: the man who saved the EU at its moment of peril. It took a sacrifice to bury the whole question of leaving Europe, and the UK came first. Like the EU or hate it, the British have shown that you can not leave it. For better or for worse, the EU now seems as inevitable as capitalism.

https://www.archynety.com/news/boris-johnson-may-have-saved-the-eu/

Tromking wrote: »

Worrying times.

For europhobes.

Tromking

mayonnaise wrote: »

If there is a seismic shift, it's a shift in policy from previous rabid anti-EU parties towards a more pragmatic pro-EU position.



Why is that?
Because the EU is more popular than ever with EU citizens.

Why is that?
Because of Brexit.


https://www.archynety.com/news/boris-johnson-may-have-saved-the-eu/

For europhobes.

I’m more than happy to concede that the far right populists on the mainland will fit their message to suit the prevailing winds of public opinion. That’s what they do.
By “pro-EU pragmatism” you mean, embracing Nationalism, anti-immigration and white supremacy, whilst not risking the perceived benefits of EU economic integration of course?
Happy to be labelled a europhobe if that the future of the EU.

Tromking

ilovehouses wrote: »

Still makes me chuckle how the more right wing, nationalistic posters who got lucky that the referendum arrived atop a wave of populism are the same people who find right wing, nationalistic populists so awful.

I do wonder whether they're trying to BS others or themselves.

No more laughable than those who cite Brexit as being the result of ring wing and nationalistic/xenophobic sentiment, yet deny and minimise more extreme examples because it happens to be EU based.
Mayo seems to saying that keeping the U.K. attached to a burgeoning far right EU is the pragmatic choice, what say you?

Tromking

ilovehouses wrote: »

'a burgeoning far right EU'? Why would I say anything other than try to keep your strawman away from naked flakes.

There's no escaping the fact that you didn't have to be a nationalistic, right wing xenophobe to vote to leave the EU but, if you were, you did.

Yes, nationalistic right wings xenophobes are available in Europe too - don't like them either.

It’s nice that you deign not to denounce every Leave voter as a nationalistic right wing xenophobe, it’s a shame many of your number can’t make the same distinction.
I’m not sure that our continental neighbours falling in love with fascism again is the straw-man you want and need it to be.
The country is probably headed for a constitutional crisis before Xmas, I’m not sure the Mandelson narrative about the motivations of Leave voters is going to be helpful.

StevieJ

Arklight wrote: »

If it!!!8217;s the will of the people a second referendum won!!!8217;t make any difference to the result.

If it!!!8217;s the will of a bunch of racists and elderly right wingers who will be comprehensively outvoted three to one in a rerun by people who realise what!!!8217;s at stake, then that!!!8217;s a bit different.

Whats the betting that the Brexiteers will insist on a 60% vote to cancel Brexit :-).

Herzlos

What is going to be helpful?

Tromking

The Maybot meeting Macron later this week. I'm half expecting more chat on the periphery about how if Brexit is cancelled then the UK might be able to have some limited concessions maybe on free movement etc. I Still think we're being softened up for another referendum.

StevieJ

More 'fake news' or is that 'project fear'

The Dover council report stated: "A 13-mile stretch of the coast-bound section of the M20, between junction eight near Maidstone and junction nine near Ashford, will be earmarked to hold heavy goods vehicles, in what will effectively become a giant temporary lorry park holding around 2,000 lorries.
"It is likely a permanent solution will not be in place for many years if enacted through current planning processes and procedures."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-45021133