Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

Filo25

wunferall wrote: »

So why aren't you berating the EU who very obviously now appear to be doing all that they can to force a no deal Brexit? It's all very well "blaming others" when you completely ignore the principal aggressor.

The EU should be showing the world that they are a fair organisation interested in promoting the welfare of its own people in order to encourage expansion, not being domineering and obstinate towards a current member who has asked to leave.
They are doing the work of the EU populists for them.

Ask yourself what the EU are so frightened of that they behave in this manner.

Because I'm not lead by tabloid headlines.

The EU have set out their position from the start relatively clearly (and its a position that is generally consistent with other arrangements they have in place with other non-EU nations) and given the redlines which we voluntarily put in place ourselves we are relatively restricted in the options we can seriously discuss.

The bit I don't understand is how anyone thought Chequers was ever going to be accepted and this week was some massive shocking snub, it was never going to be accepted, the only surprise this week is that the EU weren't more diplomatic about it to help get Theresa May get through conference season, it appears that the UK's conduct of negotiations recently even got rid of that so we were just left with honesty about where we are.

Filo25

And by the way anyone who buys Theresa May's line about how respectful the UK has been to the EU during negotiations hasn't been paying much attention to what has actually been going on for the last couple of years.

wunferall

Filo25 wrote: »

Because I'm not lead by tabloid headlines.

The EU have set out their position from the start relatively clearly (and its a position that is generally consistent with other arrangements they have in place with other non-EU nations) and given the redlines which we voluntarily put in place ourselves we are relatively restricted in the options we can seriously discuss.

The bit I don't understand is how anyone thought Chequers was ever going to be accepted and this week was some massive shocking snub, it was never going to be accepted, the only surprise this week is that the EU weren't more diplomatic about it to help get Theresa May get through conference season, it appears that the UK's conduct of negotiations recently even got rid of that so we were just left with honesty about where we are.

The disdain evidenced by the EU this week has nothing to do with any media headlines.

I said before, I suspect that our government were only too well aware of the stance which the EU would take and in effect they have been holding the carrot.

wunferall

Filo25 wrote: »

And by the way anyone who buys Theresa May's line about how respectful the UK has been to the EU during negotiations hasn't been paying much attention to what has actually been going on for the last couple of years.

Ah yes, I mean - who could discount (just for one example) Junkers "Pfft"!
:rotfl:

Filo25

wunferall wrote: »

Ah yes, I mean - who could discount (just for one example) Junkers "Pfft"!
:rotfl:

If we are all so thin skinned I can guarantee trying to negotiate a deal with the US under current leadership is going to be a laugh a minute, although somehiow I doubt the right wing press will get quite so upset about that.

My point was that Theresa May seems to think the UK has been perfectly polite throughout, when the Foreign Secretary compared the EU to nazi concentration camp guards do you think that appeared friendly and civil to the EU, plenty of other similar examples.

Personally I'm not so thin skinned that I care a great deal, the end result is everything, but I find it odd how many suddenly got so excited by the EU's "rudeness" of all things.

phillw

Filo25 wrote: »

And by the way anyone who buys Theresa May's line about how respectful the UK has been to the EU during negotiations hasn't been paying much attention to what has actually been going on for the last couple of years.

It plays to the xenophobes that think it's the EU who are messing things up. It doesn't have to make sense to logical people.

Thrugelmir

Filo25 wrote: »

but I find it odd how many suddenly got so excited by the EU's "rudeness" of all things.

For statespeople and in some cases unelected (by the people). Their behaviour, i.e. expressing personal opionions. Isn't what you expect at International level. Everybody berates Trump yet others now seem no better. Respect seem a forgotten word. Germany has an issue with the Irish border. Yet won't support sanctions against the Russians for fear of jeopeardising gas supplies.

wunferall

Filo25 wrote: »

If we are all so thin skinned I can guarantee trying to negotiate a deal with the US under current leadership is going to be a laugh a minute, although somehiow I doubt the right wing press will get quite so upset about that.

My point was that Theresa May seems to think the UK has been perfectly polite throughout, when the Foreign Secretary compared the EU to nazi concentration camp guards do you think that appeared friendly and civil to the EU, plenty of other similar examples.

Personally I'm not so thin skinned that I care a great deal, the end result is everything, but I find it odd how many suddenly got so excited by the EU's "rudeness" of all things.

Really?
I find your interpretation of events odd because the reality is that - as with your earlier "respectful" comment - there is nothing "thin skinned" about correcting a POV suggesting that the EU have been perfect gentlemen throughout when it is obvious they have not.
Don't take that as ignorance that the UK haven't had their moments because I know they have; IMHO though it has often been the result of provocation.

Your USA comment is irrelevant and has no place here other than for your own attempted (and failed) justification.

cogito

Those of us who have watched the way in which the EU has operated over the last few years understood only too clearly how the negotiations would proceed from the outset. Basically, they never budge from their starting position and expect the other side to move towards them, pocketing every concession made on the way. In a way, you have to respect that. They have their red lines and we have ours.

Where we went wrong at the outset was not to say that we were leaving the EU entirely and would go straight to WTO. Had we done so, a far more sensible discussion could have taken place. As it is, it looks like that's how it's going to end up anyway.

What I find so distasteful about the whole Salzburg fiasco is the insulting way that the EU has behaved towards our PM and ultimately to the British people. Even remainers that I know have said that they now want to be out of this organisation which claims to be our best friend but only it seems when they want our money or our security expertise.

May went to see Merkel with her Chequers suggestions, got a green light and then they got trashed by Macron, Juncker, Tusk and others. That seems to show that Merkel's power is gone and I expect her to be out of office soon.

Filo25

wunferall wrote: »

Really?
I find your interpretation of events odd because the reality is that - as with your earlier "respectful" comment - there is nothing "thin skinned" about correcting a POV suggesting that the EU have been perfect gentlemen throughout when it is obvious they have not.
Don't take that as ignorance that the UK haven't had their moments because I know they have; IMHO though it has often been the result of provocation.

Your USA comment is irrelevant and has no place here other than for your own attempted (and failed) justification.

Well that would be relevant if I said the EU had been perfect gentlemen throughout the process, but I haven't because they haven't but neither has the UK so once again why the horror?

Most of the people who got upset about this week's events were cheering on whatever nonsense about the EU Boris Johnson came out with while he was foreign secretary, so forgive me if I find the outrage hard to take seriously.