Brexit the economy and house prices part 6

mrginge

Filo25 wrote: »

No deal Brexit will be an economic shambles though, so it all sounds great getting by on bravado until then, but blaming others starts to become a lot less effective when you are in charge and the economy heads down the toilet

What is your definition of down the toilet?

gfplux

Iain_For wrote: »

Lots of referral on here to the 'deal' that doesn't relate to reality. What is being discussed by the EU is the Withdrawal Agreement about how the UK separates itself from the European Union. There are just 3 points that need to be resolved:

1. Rights of citizens in the UK and the EU.
2. The financial settlement of the UK obligations.
3. A Permanent solution to avoiding a border on the island of Ireland.

That's it. Only in the annexes to the Withdrawal Agreement are there political declarations about our future relationship with the EU after 29/3/19, all of which are subject to future talks. The annexes include things like future customs arrangements and trade agreements that are not essential to an orderly departure of the UK from the EU and are subject to future discussions.

However, without a Withdrawal Agreement, the UK would be an international outcast as all existing treaties will simply cease to operate at 11pm on 29/3/19 as set out in Article 50. Even with one, it will take years to negotiate new trade deals.

Brexit isn't a cliff edge, it's an abyss in time that our politicians simply don't seem to understand.

So, so many people have misled themselves as the word DEAL has been repeated too often as shorthand for the WITHDRAWAL/TRANSITION DEAL with a bit added on about the future relationship (to be sorted out during the transition period)

Much energy has been expended here talking of the deal as tho it were a TRADE deal.

THIS is the deal being discussed with all its green and red highlights
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/draft_agreement_coloured.pdf

gfplux

Filo25 wrote: »

If you believe Theresa May's restated redlines today and the EU's redlines then it is hard to see how we don't end up with a "No Deal" scenario if nothing else changes

That would be a no WITHDRAWAL/TRANSITION DEAL with a bit added on about the future relationship (to be sorted out during the transition period) scenario.

Thrugelmir

Filo25 wrote: »

the economy heads down the toilet

Sounds as if you are beginning to panic unnecessarily.

wunferall

Filo25 wrote: »

No deal Brexit will be an economic shambles though, so it all sounds great getting by on bravado until then, but blaming others starts to become a lot less effective when you are in charge and the economy heads down the toilet

So why aren't you berating the EU who very obviously now appear to be doing all that they can to force a no deal Brexit? It's all very well "blaming others" when you completely ignore the principal aggressor.

The EU should be showing the world that they are a fair organisation interested in promoting the welfare of its own people in order to encourage expansion, not being domineering and obstinate towards a current member who has asked to leave.
They are doing the work of the EU populists for them.

Ask yourself what the EU are so frightened of that they behave in this manner.

wunferall

mrginge wrote: »

What is your definition of down the toilet?

Free of the EU's domineering, their unnecessary interference and ever-increasing integration together with their distinct lack of fairness I suppose.

phillw

wunferall wrote: »

So why aren't you berating the EU who very obviously now appear to be doing all that they can to force a no deal Brexit?

Theresa May is doing that, in the unlikely event the EU slit their own throats to agree to it then she can't get it past parliament.

Why are you assuming it's the non UK people who are fault? It it prejudice?

gfplux wrote: »

So, so many people have misled themselves as the word DEAL has been repeated too often as shorthand for the WITHDRAWAL/TRANSITION DEAL with a bit added on about the future relationship (to be sorted out during the transition period)

The transition deal needs a long term plan for Ireland and how that plays out will basically dictate the future relationship. Gove wants to pretend we can just agree now and then change our minds later, but I'm not sure how successful that will be.

ukcarper wrote: »

That is probably true but that doesn't explain why 544 MPs voted for it.

Because everyone is sick of the leavers preaching their hate against the EU. Nobody expected turbo xenophobia from the "I'm not racist but.."s

wunferall

phillw wrote: »

Theresa May is doing that, in the unlikely event the EU slit their own throats to agree to it then she can't get it past parliament.

Why are you assuming it's the non UK people who are fault? It it prejudice?



The transition deal needs a long term plan for Ireland and how that plays out will basically dictate the future relationship. Gove wants to pretend we can just agree now and then change our minds later, but I'm not sure how successful that will be.



Because everyone is sick of the leavers preaching their hate against the EU. Nobody expected turbo xenophobia from the "I'm not racist but.."s

Your post makes little sense.

However, there are no assumptions about who is pushing for a no deal Brexit. As such it very much looks like those who refuse to accept that fact are the prejudiced ones, doesn't it?

wunferall

Jeremy Hunt has got it spot-on:

“If the EU’s view is that just by saying no to every proposal made by the United Kingdom, we will eventually capitulate and end up either with a Norway option or indeed staying in the EU, if that is there view then they’ve profoundly misjudged he British people,” Hunt told BBC radio.

“We may be polite, but we have a bottom line. And so they need to engage with us now in seriousness.”

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-hunt/uk-foreign-minister-hunt-urges-eu-get-serious-in-brexit-talks-idUKKCN1M209S?il=0

wunferall

phillw wrote: »

Because everyone is sick of the [STRIKE]leavers[/STRIKE] EUrophile remainers preaching their [STRIKE]hate against[/STRIKE] unqualified devotion to the EU. Nobody [STRIKE]expected[/STRIKE] got turbo xenophobia from the "I'm not racist but.."s; instead they got childish accusations from these remainers.

Fixed that for you.