k750i on osps warning

PinkPig

The terms and conditions say something along the lines that the price or offer may change at any time, but that they will inform you of any change at the latest when you receive your order, and you can then either cancel your order if it has not been dispatched, or return it if it has been. I can't find anything about return postage costs (am I missing this?), and so I think if they don't mention it then they'll have to pay it themselves legally.

PinkPig

michaels wrote:

Yes - the offer is on the paperwork. I have checked my email confrimation, it does not mention the offer at all but it is dated 16.01 on the 25th.

And this paperwork is outside the sealed phone? So I can see it and still be able to return it under the distance selling regulations?

GeoThermal

I think under the Distance Selling Regs the retailer is supposed to pay the return postage but don't have the information to hand. I think given they have changed the contract they should pay it anway.

bbb_uk

PinkPig wrote:

Is that right? I have in the past returned things sealed to companies at my own expense and had no indication that they ought to pay postage. Given that this was through my choice (ie. not faulty) I've always thought that was reasonable - but if I get my phone and I have the £2.99 for sixth months offer I'll certainly be asking them to pay return postage

I have a green booklet from t/s titled, "the consumer protection (distance selling) regualations 2000 - a guide for business", and on page 17 (section 8 of the terms), paragraph 8.3 reads as follows:-

8.3 The consumer must be informed if the contract includes a term that will require that the consumer return the goods in the event of cancellation and whether the consumer or supplier will be responsible for the cost of return.

and then on page 20 (section 12), paragraph 12.3 reads:-

12.3 If the contract requires the consumer to return the goods at the consumer's own expense in the even of cancellation, the supplier will be able to deduct the cost of recovering the goods if the consumer fails to return them following cancellation. The consumer must have been told about this term of the contract in advance as part of the written confirmation relating to the right to cancel.

That last sentence I believe is referring to 8.3.

Also, on page 21 (Section 14), paragraph 14.3 reads:-

14.3 The supplier must make two things clear in the written confirmation. First, if the contract provides for it, that the consumer must return the goods on cancellation. Secondly whether return/recovery will be at the expense of the consumer or the supplier. If the consumer....

Now to me that reads that if they haven't informed you that the cost of returning is your responsibility and not theirs (OSPS) then they've broken the terms of the distance selling regs 2000 but for further clarification you would best speak with t/s.

Don't break the seal on the phone (if there is one) if you plan on returning it as they have to be able to sell it on as new but if the seal has gone they can't legally sell it on as new because would you accept a phone if the seal on it has been broken. That is of course, unless the shop breaks the seal before hand to ensure nothing is missing.

bbb_uk

GeoThermal wrote:

Yes but if they sold you a 28" TV and when you opened the package at home you found it to be only 25" then they would have to replace it with the advertised one or refund you. If OSPS do have T&Cs which say they can alter the terms of the contract in such a manner without your consent I would question the validity of the T&Cs. Trading Standards would be able to advise better though.

You're talking about description of goods being different from what you bought. With regards to any offers they are just offers. Here is just a quote from t/s website:-

"I want to purchase a three piece suite that is on display in a shop. The shop refused to sell it to me. Does a shop have the right to refuse to sell goods?"
Yes! Goods on display in a shop are there for you to make an offer to buy, the shop is not obliged to accept your offer. The same applies where goods have been labelled with the wrong price; the shop does not have to sell at that price.

Now, if it turns out that the company concerned are doing it deliberately to mislead us. Eg, they constantly say a TV is such a price on offer but you can never buy it at that even after you have brought it to their attention, then you could ask t/s to investigate this dodgy selling technique.

bbb_uk

michaels wrote:

Yes - the offer is on the paperwork. I have checked my email confrimation, it does not mention the offer at all but it is dated 16.01 on the 25th. Unfortunately I can't remeber exactly what time I ordered but it was before the offer changed - as I say the 'thanks for your order' page says 8 months.

Whether they are within their rights to claim this was not the transaction point seems to me dubious, especially as they could therefore 'choose' to process orders later when the offer had changed in their favour. I think I will talk to trading standards. It also seems to me a strange way to do business - it is bound to upset your customers.

I agree its wrong but they can claim they are informing you that they are looking into (processing) your order and have just emailed you confirmation of what you requested in your order. If they send an email that beyond any doubt means they've accepted your order, or they've taken money out or accepted money from you, or you've received your phone then yes they've accepted the order and are obliged to honour such offers at the time they accepted your order.

I also agree they can deliberately process orders later if they know they're offers are changing and therefore "accept" these orders after the offers have changed. Its completely wrong but is legal unless they are doing it deliberately and it happens that much that it becomes obvious to t/s what they're up to!

bbb_uk

GeoThermal wrote:

...I think given they have changed the contract they should pay it anway.

I agree 100%. If they have changed the contract (in this case the offer) and haven't informed you of it before you receive the phone then they should pay for it to be returned.

GeoThermal

bbb_uk wrote:

You're talking about description of goods being different from what you bought. With regards to any offers they are just offers.

I don't see any difference. OSPS described an offer but supplied something different. Also the Trading Standards quote does not apply as OSPS did not refuse to sell, they changed the offer without informing the customer before hand. Is there anything in consumer law that says an offer doesn't have to be as described?

PinkPig

The terms and conditions specifically say that the offer and price might change after purchase. I think the issue is that, I would have thought, the customer should be told and given the opportunity to cancel if this happens - an email or phone call would suffice - rather than just being sent the phone and quite possibly have unsealed it before fully reading all the paperwork!

bbb_uk

GeoThermal wrote:

I don't see any difference. OSPS described an offer but supplied something different. Also the Trading Standards quote does not apply as OSPS did not refuse to sell, they changed the offer without informing the customer before hand. Is there anything in consumer law that says an offer doesn't have to be as described?

An offer to sell something at a price advertised is just an offer (an invitation to buy). A TV that says it 28" but in fact is only 25" is a misleading description. In the bold bits of the text I quoted:-

..The same applies where goods have been labelled with the wrong price; the shop does not have to sell at that price

was the bit I was trying to refer to.

Alternatively, look at this page and in particular the following quotes (taken from it):-

Under law, a retailer is entitled to decide the price he wants to charge for his goods.

The price on display is simply what the law calls an ‘invitation to treat’. In the same way you don't have to buy goods from anyone, a retailer is under no obligation to sell you anything.

You cannot insist that a shop sells you anything at a marked price, whether or not they have made a mistake.

In this quote the terms, "price on display" is basically the same as what's on OSPS website for that phones offer. Specifically, the last paragraph states that we cannot insist a shop (in this case OSPS) sells us anything (the phone) at that marked price (the offer at the time), whether or not they have made a mistake.

Now the above reads to me that it is just an offer ('invitation to treat' as t/s call it) and we can't make them sell it at that price especially if OSPS t&c basically state offers can end at any time and are subject to change. A lot of companies have something along this within their t&c.

That's how I interpret it anyhow. I'd recommend contacting t/s for advice about whether you can force them to honour the offer that you saw on their website even though they've not yet said they've accepted that offer.