HX Car Park Management PCN wrong reg typed into machine

Umkomaas

Ibcus wrote: »

Quick question as I'm about to start writing a Witness Startement.
As I only have a mono laser printer is it acceptable to the court to print out any images in black & white, or should I go to Asda (or similar) and get colour prints?

Black and white should suffice in most cases, unless you were arguing on a particular colour-related point, like they were pursuing on the basis of a red car, yet yours is green, for example.

Ibcus

Thought I would update about the complaint to the ICO.


What was sent to the ICO after HX's DPO reply.

Dear Sarah,

I am sorry for the late reply.

I have received a reply from Rachel, HX Car Park Management LTD’s DPO, regarding my complaint of how the are handling my personal data.

Simply saying my data is only stored in the UK as advised previously contradicts the information ZatPark, the company they use to manage parking enforcement data, states on their website (https://zatpark.com/faq, under /security /where is our data stored/) ‘Our servers are located in secure hosting centres in London and Amsterdam. Their exact locations are kept secret for security reasons.’

I would ask that this is looked into as saying ‘Your personal data is only stored in the UK, as advised in your right of access request, on servers located in Maidenhead, with a back up database in London. Zatpark do not store personal data relating to Parking Charge Notices in Amsterdam. This data is unrelated to Parking Charge Notices therefore is not applicable to your personal data.‘ does not make it true when the company they use to store data says it is not true, saying this data is unrelated to Parking Charge Notices implies that data is stored in locations other than the UK and this data may link back to me, this needs to be clarified.

I would appreciate it if this could be looked into.

Yours sincerely,

ICO reply

[FONT=&quot]Dear xxxxxxx,

Thank you for your email of 3 August 2019 in relation to your complaint about HX Car Park Management Ltd's (‘HX’) handling of your personal data.

I understand that you remain concerned about HX’s processing of your personal data. However, HX have explained to you that, [FONT=&quot]‘Zatpark do not store personal data relating to Parking Charge Notices in Amsterdam. This data is unrelated to Parking Charge Notices therefore is not applicable to your personal data.'[/FONT]

In addition to the above, while Zatpark’s privacy policy acknowledges that some data may be stored in Amsterdam, it does not indicate that your data would be stored in Amsterdam.

We appreciate your concerns, but as an evidence-based regulator, there is no further regulatory action that we wish to take in relation to this matter.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.

Yours sincerely,


Sarah xxxxxx
Case Officer
Information Commissioner’s Office[/FONT]

Ibcus

[FONT=&quot]IN THE COUNTY COURT AT WIGAN[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] Claim No: XXXXXX[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]BETWEEN[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]HX CAR PARK MANAGEMENT LIMITED[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] CLAIMANT[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]AND[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]XXXXXXXXX[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]DEFENDANT[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]WITNESS STATEMENT[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I, {full name} of {full address}, am the Defendant in this matter. I will say as follows.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The facts in this statement come from my personal knowledge. Where they are not within my own knowledge they are true to the best of my information and belief. Where I refer to information supplied by others, the source of the information is identified; facts and matters derived from other sources are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I am the registered keeper of the vehicle with registration mark {registration} (the ‘Vehicle’).

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]3. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The Vehicle entered the land at {car park address} on {date of incident}

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]4. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The driver parked correctly within a designated bay and, in accordance with the sign on entry to the car park (exhibit JC1/JC1A), proceeded to the Pay and Display Machines (‘PDM’) to read the ‘full terms and conditions’ (exhibit JC2).

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]5. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The driver purchased a ticket at 14:52 (exhibit JC3) from a PDM, displayed it on the dashboard and went about their business.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]6. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The driver left the car park at 15:25, staying a total of 34 minutes, with the expiry time of the ticket purchased being 15:52, well within the parking period that was paid for.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]7. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I, as the registered keeper, subsequently received a Parking Charge Notice (‘PCN’) from the Claimant demanding £100 for breach of contract, not validating a pay and display ticket. An appeal was lodged but refused.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]8. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]As can be seen on the ticket that was purchased (exhibit JC3) there is no mention of a vehicle registration number or mark, so any reasonable person would not know a ticket has been printed that would breach any terms or conditions imposed by the Claimant, the PDM will print anything typed as a Vehicle Registration Number (‘VRN’) under M/C IDENITY.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The signage on entry of the car park (exhibit JC1) at the material time breached the International Parking Community (‘IPC’) Code of Practice (‘CoP’) (exhibit JC4), of which the Claimant is an accredited member, and relies on this membership to ask the DVLA for keeper details.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9.1. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The IPC CoP Part E Schedule 1 –Signage states
Entrance Signs should:
a) Make it clear that the motorist is entering onto private land [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]b) Refer the motorist to the signs within the car park which display the full terms and conditions. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]c) Identify yourself (where you are a limited company. This should be by reference to your full company name, your company number and the jurisdiction within which your company is registered).

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9.2. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The Claimants entry signage failed to identify their company number and jurisdiction.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9.3. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The IPC CoP goes on to say:
Signs should , where practicable, be placed at the entrance to a site. Otherwise the signage within the site must be such as to be obvious to the motorist. The example above provides for an entrance sign befitting of a ‘Pay and Display’ operation. The precise wording on a sign is a matter for the Operator but such wording should not go on to explain the terms and conditions of parking unless ALL of the terms and conditions are then listed.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9.4. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The Claimants entry signage [/FONT][FONT=&quot]states 10 minutes is allowed to purchase a valid pay and display ticket after a vehicle has entered the car park, a term and condition of parking, breaching the CoP by not explaining all of the terms and conditions of the site.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The signage on entry of the car park (exhibit JC1A) instructs the driver to refer to the full terms and conditions sign(s) located at the PDMs. The extremely large, main sign if you would, (exhibit JC2) states nothing about entering a VRN at all, with ample provision to do so.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10.1. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The driver accepted these scant terms and conditions, there is no reference to any other signs, and purchased a ticket.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]10.2. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]At no point did any signage make it clear that failing to enter all characters from your vehicle registration plate you agree to pay £100.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]11. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The Claimant has added additional signage to the PDM’s at the site at some point after the material date (exhibit JC4), attesting to the fact the signage was inadequate[/FONT] and ambiguous at the time (exhibit JC5) when referring to terms and conditions that did not exist on the sings the driver was directed to.


[FONT=&quot]11.1. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The Consumer Rights Act 2015 part 2 section 69 states Contract terms that may have different meanings[/FONT](1) If a term in a consumer contract, or a consumer notice, could have different meanings, the meaning that is most favourable to the consumer is to prevail.


[FONT=&quot]11.2. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]It is my position that under the doctrine of contra proferentem, such that any uncertainty must be resolved in favour of the consumer, the claimant has no standing or cause of action to litigate in this matter.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I have requested the date the Claimant took over management of this car park, this information would not be provided.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12.1. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The IPC CoP states Where there is any change to any pre-existing terms and conditions that would not be imme!diately apparent to a person visiting the site and which materially affects the motorist you should place additional (temporary) signage at the entrance making it clear that new terms and conditions/charges apply, such that regular visitors who may be familiar with the old terms do not inadvertently incur parking charges. This signage should be in addition to the signage ordinarily required and left in place for an appropriate period.

[/FONT]
12.2. [FONT=&quot]The previous management of this car park did not use ANPR, as shown in Google Maps image dated April 2017 (exhibit JC6), a Google Maps image dated September 2018 show signage changes and the installation of ANPR camera’s (exhibit JC7).

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]12.3. [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]The Claimant failed to make it clear terms and conditions had changed and that ANPR was in use for enforcement purposes. The sign on entry stated ANPR may be in use, the large sign drivers are directed to did not mention ANPR at all.


[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]13. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I invite the court to dismiss this claim in it’s entirety, and to award my costs of attendance at the hearing such as are allowable pursuant to CPR 27.14.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Statement of truth.

I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.

Signed xxxxxxxx[/FONT]





[FONT=&quot].[/FONT]

Exhibit JC1

Exhibit JC1A

Exhibit JC2

Exhibit JC3

Exhibit JC4

Exhibit JC5

Exhibit JC6

Exhibit JC7

Coupon-mad

Woody510 wrote: »

If you need any extra evidence I can send 2 pics of tickets from one of their car parks where the machine wouldn't put a reg in on separate dates.

I would send a pm and get this evidence too, and show that this is a flaw with machines used by this Claimant. Maybe Woody510 would write a quick witness statement and sign it under a statement of truth to accompany his pics and confirm your contention that this is not a one off error by you, but by the machine.

Also file & serve with your WS & evidence, a high hundreds (or even 4 figures) COSTS SCHEDULE as per the discussion this week in the thread by StubbornGoat, who almost got his £1500 granted at the hearing I attended, if only it had been filed & served earlier the Judge said she would!

Ibcus

The only thing that bothers me about misprint stuff is the fact it was admitted on here only 06 was entered by the driver.
If they look on here and print it out it makes us look like idiots

Coupon-mad

No, that's been tried before and Judges are not interested in anonymous forum posts which may or may not have been written by the actual defendant.

When some malicious person tipped Excel off about Lamilad's pepipoo posts, it got them precisely nowhere and is the subject of mirth in some quarters even now!

Ibcus

WS dropped off at court, emailed to Gladstones and also posted to them as I've been told they won't accept a WS that is emailed, so covering all bases.



They had no problem emailing 'Please find attached the bundle of documents our Client holds, and would seek to rely on should a claim in this matter be issued. ' in November though

BrownTrout

Have you done your costs schedule as per CM's advice?

Ibcus

Costs schedule was included in the WS handed in to the court, the WS posted to Gladstones and also the WS emailed to them.


It wasn't as big as CM suggested, it's over £400 but less than £500, I searched the forum for a few hours today to find the schedule CM posted about in another thread (Sassii in newbies??) to see how to set it out but couldn't find it. Maybe I couldn't see the wood for the trees, a lot of trees in there.



I need to phone the court on Monday to check they have paid the fee, deadline was 12th August at 4pm.


I guess if we get their WS before then there is no need.

Pjr1525

Hi ibcus. Got your pm. Unfortunately I don't have the ws from Gladstones. As I remember it was about 40 pages, mostly copies of contracts and photos, all stock stuff, only about 6 pages specific to my case. I may be mistaken but I think they're obliged to send their ws to you within a certain time period. The ws that I received was full of glaring errors which showed that they take no care at all. In my case they never even turned up to court, I believe the 'before and after' photos of the signs make them believe they can't win, so they don't turn up to court.
Sorry I can't be more help. Good luck.