Not sure what to do

stuartJo1989

Callie22 wrote: »

One other thing to bear in mind is that a death or injury to a child from a household chemical or a household knife would be treated (and viewed) very differently by the Police and wider society than a death or injury to a child caused by an illegal drug that they'd found in their home. One would most likely be viewed as a tragic accident, the other would be viewed as very poor/potentially criminally irresponsible parenting.

To be fair but if a child swallowed bleach or knifed themselves etc I think there would be equal shouts for possible child neglect!

My beef with cocaine is that it is ILLEGAL and, as you say, that would carry a much more negative connotation!

Equally, as I said in my earlier post you'd be daft to ignore the potential consequences of long-cocaine use. The people OH knew who died were all dads with young kids. They weren't at all the kinds of people you'd think of as addicts or junkies, they were professionals who did a bit of coke at weekends and parties and it eventually caught up with them. Tragedies, IMHO, but you can't really deny that they were avoidable.

That's not good

JayJay100

Pixie5740 wrote: »

I was merely making the point that there is a world of difference between someone who uses drugs be it cannabis, cocaine or alcohol recreationally and an addict. In answer to the question about whether I could give up wine, yes I could and have done for various reasons over the years. Whether I would give up a glass of wine at the weekend because my OH asked me to I'm not sure. It's the thin end of the wedge, what would I be asked to give up next? Although the chances of Mr Pixie asking me to give up alcohol are slim to none.

I can understand about thin the end of the wedge, and I know it's unlikely that you would be asked, but you could and have done it: not an addiction.

I can remember years ago, grumbling at the doctors, because he put me on an antibiotic that I couldn't drink with, and I had a party coming up. I rarely drink, and I said that as soon as I knew I couldn't drink, I always wanted one; he told to be careful as that was an alcoholic tendency. I laughed and he didn't; he was being serious. I said that I have a couple vodkas twice a month, hardly an alcoholic's behaviour. He told me that it didn't matter; the fact the urge was there, was an alcoholic tendency, albeit a mild one. I walked out of there feeling really grubby and horrible, but it's always stuck with me.

mummyto_1

Thank you so much for all the replies.


Some people seem to be saying as long as its not impacting us much financially and its not a raging habit to turn a blind eye?


I think if we didn't have our son then maybe I would, but its just that as our son is getting older wont he find it odd that at the weekend his dad keeps disappearing upstairs.


So many things to think about now.


If we did split I probably could afford to stay in the house, but don't really need 3 bedrooms so could sell it and buy a 2 bedroom place.


I've dug out the trust deed we set up and it is as follows:

1. The net sale proceeds shall be paid as to:
   1. The fixed sum of £164,000.00 to the First Owner (that's me, £164k is what I put in)
   2. The fixed sum of £6,000.00 to the Second Owner (him)
   3. The balance being divided between the Co-Owners by paying the First Owners share to the First Owner and the Second Owners Share to the Second Owner. (I believe this means any remaining equity is 70% to me and 30% to him)

warby68

OP (I think I identified you from first post btw if that matters), you said that you are 'anti-drugs' but clearly you aren't or haven't been. You started a relationship and had a child with a partner you knew to take illegal drugs. You also knew he had a more significant habit at the outset. This isn't exactly an anti-drugs stance.

We all change when we have children and question things and this seems to be coming to you now albeit quite late. TBH you still sound ambivalent and I'm not sure why. The only argument you pick up on despite several much stronger ones being made is the 'blind eye' one and your key question was initially around the cost of the habit.

As for me personally its a horror show - my child in a household with illegal drugs. One of my non-negotiables. But clearly it isn't black and white for you. I think until you make your own mind up on what your values are for both you and your child its going to be difficult. Certainly any challenge you make to him will be seen as you moving the goalposts after all this time of acceptance.

As you seem to be focused already on the practicalities of splitting up, that seems like you don't expect any change to be achievable. That also sounds like your blinkers are coming off on his behaviour as a whole. IF otherwise perfect, wouldn't you want to have a serious go at persuading him to stop before the nuclear option?

BTW how does he rationalize fatherhood and drug taking? As a bit of an old biddy here, he sounds immature to say the least - solo gaming and coke at least once a week? No thanks.

mummyto_1

warby68 wrote: »

OP (I think I identified you from first post btw if that matters), you said that you are 'anti-drugs' but clearly you aren't or haven't been. You started a relationship and had a child with a partner you knew to take illegal drugs. You also knew he had a more significant habit at the outset. This isn't exactly an anti-drugs stance.

We all change when we have children and question things and this seems to be coming to you now albeit quite late. TBH you still sound ambivalent and I'm not sure why. The only argument you pick up on despite several much stronger ones being made is the 'blind eye' one and your key question was initially around the cost of the habit.

As for me personally its a horror show - my child in a household with illegal drugs. One of my non-negotiables. But clearly it isn't black and white for you. I think until you make your own mind up on what your values are for both you and your child its going to be difficult. Certainly any challenge you make to him will be seen as you moving the goalposts after all this time of acceptance.

As you seem to be focused already on the practicalities of splitting up, that seems like you don't expect any change to be achievable. That also sounds like your blinkers are coming off on his behaviour as a whole. IF otherwise perfect, wouldn't you want to have a serious go at persuading him to stop before the nuclear option?

BTW how does he rationalize fatherhood and drug taking? As a bit of an old biddy here, he sounds immature to say the least - solo gaming and coke at least once a week? No thanks.

You are totally correct when you say immature, he definately needs to grow up.


Im not sure why I've not had a serious go at him about it, I think after the years together I think I may have just 'got used to it' which actually sounds awful now I think about it!


When I've asked before when he always skirts round the issue. The current date is "in the new year"

spadoosh

stuartJo1989 wrote: »

You don't have to rule out responsible drinkers (or smokers) because:

1. Both activities are socially acceptable for the most part, depending on the preferences of each partner

2. Both are LEGAL

I can understand why you might argue hypocrisy, but to be fair if cocaine ticked both of the above points (or at the very minimum point 2) then I would be happy to defend someone's right to take cocaine recreationaly. Because cocaine ticks NEITHER box, I find it hard to side with you.

Moot argument. It depends on what social circles you reside whether its socially acceptable, apparently 10% of the population (16-59) have used cocaine in the last year , a population in to themillion is hardly a insignificant social group. And you might need the law to tell you what is and isnt right, i like to think im reponsible enough that i dont. I mean theres no laws telling me i cant drink a bottle of bleach (i suppose you could argue suicide but thats decriminalised) it doesnt mean to say its not stupid or bad. Im allowed to eat 10kilos of sugar in a sitting, i dont because that would probably be bad. Im allowed to walk a tthe edge of a cliff. Im allowed to swim in the ocean in the middle of winter on my own.




Why? Seems like you could have been a bit more productive? When I've finished this post I may check for a reply, but aside from that I'm not wasting any more time thinking about it. Thats nice. Often find i cant help where my thoughts are drawn. On this occasion my thoughts where drawn to the OP's partner. Im not always productive with my time (now will be a prime example)



Haven't read OP's posts, so have to take you at face value with the summary.

- Good on OP for threatening to take the child away from their dad who takes cocaine (as long as access is arranged, and the dad pays childcare, I'm fully supportive of OP).

- Take someone's house? 70% of the house is OP's. As long as the dad gets the cut of 30% or whatever he's entitled to, that's fine.

- Ridiculing? Had to go and read OP's posts and it all seems quite factual, little to no ridiculing...

- Controlling? I thought controlling would be more like telling the husband he can't sit downstairs and take coke whilst playing on the playstation all night? Seems like the total opposite?

Opposing views. Using a child and someones house as a threat for them to carry out the behaviour you would prefer is morally questionable. We can argue the mileage on that like how morally questionable is it if theyre a violent alocholic (not very) or they offer the threat because they like to control (more questionable)



Well, OP sort of hinted that husband is shutting himself away from the world on Friday night, and not even eating. I'd imagine that he is neglecting OP a bit here, particularly as they could instead maybe spend the night together? I dont expect my partner to be at my beckon call. It sounds like a mutually agreed arrangement to me. I do similar. My OH will ensure i can watch every F1 race without fail (And shell never watch it with me), i ensure she gets time to see one of her friends often who doesnt live locally which usually involves a few nights away.

Also, how is having a child a "morally questionable behaviour"? :rotfl: Gives off the impression that you are quite biased here, if you pay little attention to the points for his morally questionable behaviours.... You couldve put the quiestion mark before the quotes, where i had it. I dont think it is. Not so sure about paying little attention, can you point out any other morally questionable behaviour from him, im guessing you wouldve if it was apparent?



The "broken home" will only affect the child (in the long run) if the DAD doesn't make an effort to stay in contact and look after the child. Same with the MUM.

The cocaine use is upsetting OP and that is going to foster resentment if they stay together. OP's fella is walking a very tight line at the moment and it could so so easily spiral out of control.

I'm a gambling addict (tackling it) and I've always thought that I could just have the odd small bet etc. I'm different to other gamblers, I won't get addicted! Its all bull like, if this guy is taking cocaine recreationaly then it is a very real and very serious situation which, in all likleyhood, WILL spiral out of control eventually. It sounds like he's using it to escape from !!!! instead of the social aspect, so he's halfway down the rabbit hole already.



Or the arguments when OP starts cracking because they are putting up with something that they are unhappy with.

Fair points people should consider there own well being and that of their children in any relationship




Conversely, you can't possibly know the consequences of OP staying (but that hasn't stopped you from suggesting that the resultant "broken home" is going to adversely affect the child).

Correct, although i dont hink i suggested that,
i suggested its a possibility, i never intended to suggest it was a guarantee. I dont think it is, my comment have been in reply to the guarantees being offered from the counter argument. He IS a junkie. He will endanger child. He is not responsible. This is all opinion or conjecture

Ultimately, the OP has to make a decision based on what is right for:

- Her
- Her child

I'm going to be cut-throat here, but she shouldn't be !!!!!footing around with thinking about how the guy will feel. I frankly don't know whether staying or leaving is the answer here, but her priority should be on what SHE WANTS.

I think if you dont consider your partner in a break up youre ultimately probably doing them a favour. I think in a relationship you have to accept compromise. If i was the priority in my relationship, i wouldnt be with anyone. Personally i see it as we (the family unit) are the priority.



Well, had a VERY QUICK look on https://www.ons.gov.uk/ (stores all of the death data for the UK) and I'm not convinced that death by the highlighted methods is actually greater than 1-3 a year!!

Please come back with some EVIDENCE of death rates. Frankly, no child is going to die from cocaine because people who take it WILL hide it from children. The other examples you gave I think pose a greater risk of DEATH/INJURY, but I very much doubt that the risk is significant enough. You neednt have bothered.
I spent too much effort thinking about the guy the other night,
it appears you spent to much time looking at reasearch (im aware what the ONS do) which i suggested would be the case. The deaths are minimal, something i speculated would be the case.
Just like i speculated deaths to children in the UK from cocaine would be extremely rare (i suggested it was more rare) Im a statistics kind of guy so spend way too much time looking at ONS figures. Alas you seem to back up my point in that i was suggesting that the dangers to a child of cocaine being in a house would be minimal. Probably significantly less dangerous than having a dog (usually a couple of deaths a year) or knives (probably more deaths although likely to be homicide rather than accidental). The arguments put forward carry little weight because they are based on opinion, proven when people say things like junkie and addict. The reality is most drug users are not junkie and addicts. Most live normal lives and suffer marginal consequences as a result.

I said very early on that i thought this was little to do with drugs. But more a change in views from the OP. Theres nothing wrong with that. People fall in and out of love all the time. People change what they want. Demoniseing the partner for drug use just seems like a convenient way to get people to encourage you to do what you want anyway.

The op doesnt suggest hes ever been a threat to her or child. Yet is willing to accept the argument that he could be dangerous. The OP was tolerable of this during her pregnancy when youre most likely to transfer damaged genes to the child (at conceptio from the male POV) im guessing she never worried (enough) about the very real threat that comes with being impregnated by someone who is an addict and the increased likelihood of birth defects.

Ive not been a parent long but ive learnt pretty quickly that a lot of my job seems to be "do as i say not as i do". Im allowed to plug and unplug the hoover, my child is not. Im allowed to touch the radiator my child is not. Im allowed to open the snack drawer, my child is not. Im allowed to use bleach, knives, the stairs etc and my child is not.

The op still hasnt said if he stopped the cocaine she would stay with him (i couldve missed it, i struggle when a thread gets past a couple of pages to force myself to read it all) and that speaks volumes to me. Theyve worked out exactly how much they can get from the split up though.

The op also say they want advice from those who dont know her. Why? The sceptic in me thinks its because people are more likely to demonise an annonymous drug user than someone who knows them personally.

I wonder what the OP's friends say and the partners friends say? It would be unusual for no one but the OP and partner to know. IM a drug user and her closest friends know as do mine.

Of course im speculating and assuming. Although its not any different from more or less everyone whose posted.

mummyto_1

If he didn't take drugs then yes I would stay with him, as I believe he wouldn't be selfish like he is now.


For example we both work full time but he gets a lie in on both Saturday and Sunday, I know that's a minor thing just using that as an example

spadoosh

JayJay100 wrote: »

Damn right I would. Every single time. He's already proving that coke is more important to him than his wife and child. He's an addict, but a controlled one, concentrating on his Friday night fix and I bet that nothing gets in the way of that. I also bet that he tells himself 'I can give this up at any time' and then struggles to complete a two week stretch. Would you be happy if your child came home and said 'yeah, I'm using, but it's just once a week?' Maybe you would: I don't know.

No i wouldnt. In the same breath i wouldnt be happy if they came home and said theyd be drinking or smoking or sleeping around or stealing or any other potentially detrimental behaviour. I dont think im going to be happy with every decison my child makes. For the most part im expecting its going to be a case of suck it up

Why has he proved it more important? How much should someone sacrifice of their own life in order to please the other? If he should sacrifice his cocaine, surely the OP should be willing to sacrifice her objection to cocaine? Why not? If hes said to the OP you accept my cocaine use or im leaving (escaping my thought that op wants to leave irrespective of drug use) hed be a lot of words that wouldnt get past the swear filter.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

Cocaine leaves a trail of poverty, violence and despair on its route from broken countries via desparate mules to bored middle class losers who need a bit of extra buzz in their prosaic lives. All to make fat profits for dangerous criminals. If people in the Western world stopped guzzling it up their noses at weekends, various South American countries might actually have a chance at rebalancing their economies.

Why not sit down together and watch Narcos, so he can get an idea of what his harmless little middle class habit actually funds.

spadoosh

bluebear36 wrote: »

It's her partner, not her husband, and I'm guessing you're a cocaine user by your defence of this junkie. If the OP isn't happy with his actions then she is perfectly entitled to leave him. As they aren't married they each get what they put into the house; she isn't "taking" it away from him. And no court will award custody to someone who takes cocaine, recreationally or not.

Sorry for mistaking the two.

No, never used it. I mentioned earlier about throwing someone out of my house who was taking cocaine on my breakfast table. The thought of snorting a powder up my nose is simply repulsive to me. My defence is based on free choice. Theres very little to suggest hes a danger to anyone except himself. As such he should be at liberty to do as he pleases. Just like the OP. Except one its acceptable to cast aspersions the other its not.