Hopefully you can help resolve this argument one way or another!

teddysmum

I can see the argument about not having a lodger.


It is all very well to think of having one and the 'easy' money involved,but when it comes down to actually acquiring one ,the situation changes and you become nervous.


Would you lose privacy (eg can things be heard through walls)?


What if he/she is trouble (no rent, antisocial,neighbour complaints, theft )as they may refuse to leave and removal be very fraught.


Also,as has been mentioned, if the lodger is so self contained that they don't invade your life at all, then they are probably a tenant, bring a situation which is more costly and more difficult to deal with.


My husband and I have never had separate bank accounts; just savings in my name to use a tax allowance and now bank accounts for the interest, so his and hers is alien to me , but separate money just for your individual needs and a pool for the rest seems the fairest way to go.


Your other has has taken a second job ,though he wasn't forced to and it's not his fault that it an easy job which brings in money.Would you prefer that he gave it up and worked longer at a lower paid job? After all, he can do some household tasks in between actually working, to take the load from you.

FBaby

I don't think either of you is right or wrong. You both have good arguments for wanting things are you do.

In a way, I feel that the current situation is the best compromise. He doesn't want a lodger, you keep the money you are earning that would be the equivalent of what you would get if you had a lodger. He can't have it both ways, ie. his wish not to have the inconvenience of a lodger, but some disposable income that you are earning because he won't get a lodger.

Saying that, we don't really know how much you are spending that you consider essential that he might have a point saying is a luxury. One of my friends always moan that her husband is having a go at her for spending which she argues is 'normal' spending for a woman and totally reasonable. I'm with her OH on that one though! I earn twice as much as her and wouldn't consider spending half on clothes as she does, nor make up, shoes, hand bags etc... My OH would be annoyed if I did so and then complained I didn't have enough disposable income.

So really, you need to talk more so that you can reach some compromise you can both live with.

onomatopoeia99

Elinore wrote: »

buy shoes because my old ones are falling apart and so on.....

You only have one pair of shoes and they are falling apart? You should definitely by a replacement pair when the first pair become unservicable. If you have more than one pair of shoes already, then wear one of the non falling apart pairs. I have one pair of shoes, I wear them every day for work and at weekends, going out, etc, they are 20 months old and still going strong.

Haircuts? I have those, one every 8-10 weeks, so five or six times a year, which will be £50 or £60/year. So you should definitely spend up to £60 a year on hair care, no matter what he says about it.

Having an extra person living in your home? That's something you both need to agree to 100%, now and continually in the future. If you try to punish him for not agreeing, which it sounds like you are by your actions with the money from one of your employments, you run a grave risk of breaking the relationship.

sleepymans

Split now before it becomes
more entrenched and bitter. You aren't compatible

LeesArt

@Elinore

"What we have here is a failure to communicate" Cool hand Luke

Here is my tuppence worth...

1. You are both failing to communicate, him about change of mind, you about WHY you are paying into your own account.

2. You are both using the Joint Account wrongly.

Overall I am on your side, so here is how I would suggest joint accounts are used.

As others have said there are many ways to share expenses but I detest joint accounts, they open both sides to abuse and are horrendously hard to close without consent.

So what is the basis for your shared expenses?

If partner1 earns £120k net and Partner2 earns £60k net, how should this be split up?

Does Partner2 have automatic divvy on Partner1's earnings over £60k?

I think NOT.

My approach is that a budget should be created of shared expenses that both parties should contribute to equally but not equally pound for pound. So in above scenario, household income is £180k or £15,000 a month, P1 £10k and P2 £5k. If they live in swish Canary Wharf Apartment that costs £9000 a month then P1 should pay £6000 and P2 should pay £3000, the same ratio of their respective net income.

Now @Elinore I think it is entirely reasonable that you say HE has moved the goal posts, he has, you selected and bought this house on an agreed basis of an element of the income come from having a lodger. Now you are having to take a 3rd job just to have a few things you deserve.

So you could pay the income from new job into the Joint account and then take it right back out again, but I would sit him down and say "I think we need to have a chat about our finances".

You create the spreadsheet showing all the outgoings, and split these on a pro rata basis according to income. You count the income from the lodger as a joint income 50/50.

By reneging on the agreement to have a lodger he has taken money from your pocket, so you can show that as a cost to you of £300 but also as a further £300 to paring down the mortgage or to a new car fund or whatever. This is reasonable as the property was bought on that basis, to reduce your joint expenses.

My feeling is that once the agreed joint expenses have been allocated and made, you ONLY pay those amounts into the Joint Account, after that it is his business how he spends his disposable income and your business how you spend yours. Any additional expenses are paid on the same ratio to the income.

I think the AirBnB idea was a good one, just to get him used to the concept.

I would ask him what his biggest objection is, if it is the lack of a separate front door is there a way to resolve that by having them use a rear entrance or getting one done?

If you choose the right lodger it can work out very well, a busy rep who is travelling a lot, a Doctor or Nurse who works all hours.

Firstly you need to understand his objection, ask him IF he were to have a lodger would he prefer male or female, this simple question lowers his barrier, instead of it being Lodger or No Lodger it becomes Male or Female.

Next ask him what he things the biggest incovenience would be; noise, food prep, loss of amenities, loss of privacy? Then consider ways to reduce those, could they be made almost self contained (be careful here, if they are fully self contained you need to protect deposit and create an Assured Shorthold Tenancy rather than a Lodgers Agreement. You have to share some space for it to be a lodger.

Remind your partner that Lodgers have virtually no right of tenure, just reasonable notice, which could be a week or two weeks at most, make sure this is specified in lodger agreement as say 14 days. So if you get some nutcase you can quickly move them on.

Obviously you would restrict smoking, guests, food in their room (if there is a space for them to cook and eat elsewhere) and so on.

Give him "buy in" to the decisions about the lodger, this may bring him around or at the very least communicate his objections, then those can be dealt with and you can have this £600. Personally, I think he should be paying £600 extra if it is he that is the blocker, why should you have to work a 3rd job because of HIS about turn on having a lodger.

Do your budget spreadsheet on all expenses being shared by income ratio (counting the lost £600) and propose the Joint Account is used differently, i.e. Only to cover shared expenses.

After that you can spend your money on hair do's and he can spend his on anal bleaching if that is his hearts desire, it will be none of your respective businesss

krlyr

No one can really tell you who's right or wrong or what the resolution is, because everyone will have their own views on how money should be split in a relationship.

I can see this from both sides..I was with someone who developed anxiety and a lot of this revolved around overpayments. We could afford decent overpayments, but it spiralled and he wanted to put almost every penny in...most of the time. However, he earned more than me on salary, and also had the opportunity of overtime (no such luck in my job, overtime only earns us TOIL and with me doing evening classes too I wasn't interested in taking a second job) which wasn't fixed in to our budget (as it varied) so while he could do a decent overpayment *and* have some fun spending money with his OT if he wanted to, I was putting almost everything in bar our £100 each spending money...but then at some point that was getting eaten up by food shopping, higher utility bills etc. as they all came out of my account. OK, he'd often be the one to stump up for an impromptu takeaway or meal out but some months I felt as if I'd not bought myself a single thing and yet my £100 was all gone. So you having your "fun" money and him going without, I can see how that would feel if he didn't have anything for himself. I didn't acutally mind the extra money he made being spent on what he liked, but I did feel a bit resentful when I was having nothing of my own left despite supposedly having budgeted for it.

I think you perhaps need to sit down and discuss your available finances, your 'fun spend' budget and also what you deem essentials. Colouring, highlights, a wash and blowdry are probably would I would call slight luxuries. But a trim or cut every 8 weeks or so is pretty essential hair maintenance. Does he go to a barber for a haircut at all? Does he deem that a luxury? New clothes, if just on a whim, is different to new clothes because your only suitable pair of work shoes have worn out.

I'd also be discussing the third job - as others have said, how maintainable is that? I did often feel bad that I earned less than my ex so couldn't physically contribute as much to the overpayments - but I was doing a qualification that would probably lead to me overtaking him in salary and I was fully prepared for me to be the one able to pay more into the pot. I always considered it "our" pot, whether it was me or him putting more in. And if he'd ever left/lost his job, or been off long-term sick (especially when his anxiety was bad), I would have been the one paying for everything and wouldn't have minded as it would have still been "our" pot, even if it was just my salary.

How much of a financial difference would it make if you said that you'll put your third income into the household pot but you're also going to include things like haircuts and necessary clothes purchases in the household budget? Sounds a bit like they may cancel each other out, but it may mean more to him in a gesture to not have that financial separation.

As for the lodger situation..I think it's a very personal thing and something you both need to be in agreement with. We had a second bedroom in our place and there were times when a family member or friend of mine could have done with renting a room, but I knew my ex wouldn't have liked the idea (renting the room for extra overpayment money was something we discussed and ruled out early on) so I never offered it. It's unfair that he's changed his mind now, especially as you purchased the house with that in mind, so I think reaching a compromise is a good idea - as suggested, perhaps try it without much commitment by offering on Airbnb on limited dates?


I do think you should make it a priority to sit down and discuss it all though. Finances within a relationship are so complicated, and can often be make or break. It wasn't the cause of the end of my relationship, but it certainly strained things at times - and got a bit nasty towards the end too when it came to selling the house/taking household items. It's certainly made me a bit wary - I'm not sure what I'll do when the new fella and I reach that stage, especially as I now own a house on my own (and I earn more than him - so that'll be an interesting new dynamic to consider)

Tabbytabitha

Why not look for a Monday to Friday tenant so the place is all yours at the weekend? That would seem to me to be the compromise solution.

And stop making establishments to your mortgage until you can actually afford to, which you can't do at present. Relationships come before money.

Red-Squirrel_2

onomatopoeia99 wrote: »

Haircuts? I have those, one every 8-10 weeks, so five or six times a year, which will be £50 or £60/year. So you should definitely spend up to £60 a year on hair care, no matter what he says about it.

Women can't get their hair cut this cheaply. It just isn't possible.

The cheapest you can get is a hairdressing college, that's if there is one near you and your availability lines up with the training sessions, which take longer than a normal salon appointment. The college near me charges £20 if you want your hair cut and coloured.

krlyr

Tabbytabitha wrote: »

And stop making establishments to your mortgage until you can actually afford to, which you can't do at present. Relationships come before money.

I so agree with this sentiment. Our overpayments in the end just resulted in better deposits for our next two separate houses when we split.

Elinore

Firstly, lets me highlight how the rooms are arranged to ally the worries of some people that the 'flat' makes the person staying a tenant not a lodger (this is not me justifying further just clarifying!!!)

Hopefully I will explain clearly enough so you guys can visualise this:

You open the front door to a large hall (it has frosted glass panels either side so keeps the hall bright and light) On your right there is a door to the garage then the stairs to the upper floors. On the left side are two doors and an archway. First is the archway to a small anteroom/boot room with old fashioned fitted pew seats, big brass coat hooks and hat shelves with bevelled mirrors – you walk though this little room to a further arch at the back which leads to a utility room with a full size sink under the window, tumble dryer, washing machine, pulley maid and a large pantry with all the cleaning products/ironing board/vacuum in. The boiler is in this room. There is a wired in smoke alarm and a carbon monoxide alarm.

The previous owners had a microwave oven/kettle/hot plate/toaster for the use of the lodger in this room – plenty of cupboard space for all their crockery and utensils. But as the wash/dryer machines, heating controls and pantry are for the use of the house and there are no doors - the lodger doesn’t have exclusive use of the room. (This doesn’t mean we wouldn’t respect use and privacy – it’s more to ensure the line between lodger and tenant is clearly marked)

The first door is to a downstairs loo that was converted some years ago into a full 4 piece bathroom. It has no window but is a big room with lots of space and well aired and lit with good lighting (I hate bathrooms with no windows – but this is not bad) again, as this is a downstairs loo the lodger would not have exclusive use of this room. (Again - This doesn’t mean we wouldn’t respect use and privacy)

The final door is the lodger’s bed room – nice big double with floor to ceiling doors out to the fully enclosed courtyard garden (and good blinds and curtains if a wall of glass in a bed room gives anyone heebie jeebies)

The hall then dog legs round to behind the staircase and flows back towards the garage. Making an open space the size of the lodger’s bed room with a second set of patio doors on the back wall to the garden. This space is just an extension of the hall there is no doors and it’s the only way to access the garden directly from the house (though you can from the garage). This being said it can’t be seen when you enter as the stairs obscure it so it’s a relatively private space where a small sofa, chair, tv and desk can happily fit.

First floor – should never need to be accessed by the lodger - has a kitchen, dining room and lounge – second floor has master bed, ensuite, second bedroom and master bath – third has a tiny gable room as a junk room /reading nook

So hopefully that has reassured everyone.

In regards to the issue ’if’ we ever will get a lodger or ‘if not’ how we are going ahead – Mr. and I had a sit down chat. It didn’t go well. We both agreed to some ground rules so things would remain constructive as we both found this an emotive subject. So it looked like everything was going to be discussed in a grownup fashion. However it lasted for 5 whole mins before everything got inflammatory and the ground rules ended up being thrown right out the window. Mr. stormed off to see his sister and I went to work.

On waking this morning I had received a cryptic text overnight from him about his sister being livid and cake/wanting to eat it. – Not sure if he means me, or him or there was actual cake lol. Then a further one offering to go out to dinner and chat like adults.

(ps - please be assured the third job money is for needs - not wants. Overpayments mean when we re- mortage we have a better LTV - so its hard work now but it will reduce our outgoings considerably next year)