Hopefully you can help resolve this argument one way or another!

Out,_Vile_Jelly

Forget about the lodger for now. Focus on enjoying the new house with your partner- that was the reason you bought it surely? Otherwise your life will consist solely of working and arguing about money.

fairy_lights

It sounds like quite a grand house, and if you're both working multiple jobs to afford it then it sounds like you've massively overstretched yourselves in buying it. Is selling and moving somewhere cheaper an option?

NeilCr

I don’t think it matters how out of the way the lodger is. I’d still know they were there - and, in the first house that we had bought together. I would’t like that at all.

I understand that your OH indicated he was okay with a lodger but, as has been said, people change their minds and things can look different when reality bites! I’m not defending him for that but he clearly feels very strongly about this issue now

I’m with Out, Vile Joe leave the lodger for the time being. It seems to be too contentious for any agreement to reached and now is the time to enjoy your first place together

onomatopoeia99

Red-Squirrel wrote: »

Women can't get their hair cut this cheaply. It just isn't possible.

The cheapest you can get is a hairdressing college, that's if there is one near you and your availability lines up with the training sessions, which take longer than a normal salon appointment. The college near me charges £20 if you want your hair cut and coloured.

I've seen a woman pay the same as me, as she was ahead of me in the queue at the barber. Had hers cut shorter than I do though (one all over versus my four on top, two back and sides) and no wash / blow dry / styling product / highlights / colour / perm / kitchen sink thrown at it.

She looked amazing when it was done too.

badmemory

I think you are going to have to let the idea of a lodger go. I too would be somewhat annoyed at the mind change (that's the polite version). However, I really don't think you can push someone into this when they are so clearly against it.

I think you need a full SOA doing & maybe you can find something it that that you can negotiate over. Is anyone at work likely to comment on you looking shabby?

LeesArt

LeesArt wrote: »

@Elinore

Here is my tuppence worth...

1. You are both failing to communicate, him about change of mind, you about WHY you are paying into your own account.

2. You are both using the Joint Account wrongly.

Overall I am on your side, so here is how I would suggest joint accounts are used.

As others have said there are many ways to share expenses but I detest joint accounts, they open both sides to abuse and are horrendously hard to close without consent.

So what is the basis for your shared expenses?

If partner1 earns £120k net and Partner2 earns £60k net, how should this be split up?

Does Partner2 have automatic divvy on Partner1's earnings over £60k?

I think NOT.

My approach is that a budget should be created of shared expenses that both parties should contribute to equally but not equally pound for pound. So in above scenario, household income is £180k or £15,000 a month, P1 £10k and P2 £5k. If they live in swish Canary Wharf Apartment that costs £9000 a month then P1 should pay £6000 and P2 should pay £3000, the same ratio of their respective net income.

Now @Elinore I think it is entirely reasonable that you say HE has moved the goal posts, he has, you selected and bought this house on an agreed basis of an element of the income come from having a lodger. Now you are having to take a 3rd job just to have a few things you deserve.

So you could pay the income from new job into the Joint account and then take it right back out again, but I would sit him down and say "I think we need to have a chat about our finances".

You create the spreadsheet showing all the outgoings, and split these on a pro rata basis according to income. You count the income from the lodger as a joint income 50/50.

By reneging on the agreement to have a lodger he has taken money from your pocket, so you can show that as a cost to you of £300 but also as a further £300 to paring down the mortgage or to a new car fund or whatever. This is reasonable as the property was bought on that basis, to reduce your joint expenses.

My feeling is that once the agreed joint expenses have been allocated and made, you ONLY pay those amounts into the Joint Account, after that it is his business how he spends his disposable income and your business how you spend yours. Any additional expenses are paid on the same ratio to the income.

I think the AirBnB idea was a good one, just to get him used to the concept.

I would ask him what his biggest objection is, if it is the lack of a separate front door is there a way to resolve that by having them use a rear entrance or getting one done?

If you choose the right lodger it can work out very well, a busy rep who is travelling a lot, a Doctor or Nurse who works all hours.

Firstly you need to understand his objection, ask him IF he were to have a lodger would he prefer male or female, this simple question lowers his barrier, instead of it being Lodger or No Lodger it becomes Male or Female.

Next ask him what he things the biggest incovenience would be; noise, food prep, loss of amenities, loss of privacy? Then consider ways to reduce those, could they be made almost self contained (be careful here, if they are fully self contained you need to protect deposit and create an Assured Shorthold Tenancy rather than a Lodgers Agreement. You have to share some space for it to be a lodger.

Remind your partner that Lodgers have virtually no right of tenure, just reasonable notice, which could be a week or two weeks at most, make sure this is specified in lodger agreement as say 14 days. So if you get some nutcase you can quickly move them on.

Obviously you would restrict smoking, guests, food in their room (if there is a space for them to cook and eat elsewhere) and so on.

Give him "buy in" to the decisions about the lodger, this may bring him around or at the very least communicate his objections, then those can be dealt with and you can have this £600. Personally, I think he should be paying £600 extra if it is he that is the blocker, why should you have to work a 3rd job because of HIS about turn on having a lodger.

Do your budget spreadsheet on all expenses being shared by income ratio (counting the lost £600) and propose the Joint Account is used differently, i.e. Only to cover shared expenses.

After that you can spend your money on hair do's and he can spend his on anal bleaching if that is his hearts desire, it will be none of your respective businesss

Elinore wrote: »

Firstly, lets discuss the is it a tenant / lodger issue and get it out the way.

Hopefully I will explain clearly enough so you guys can visualise this:

You open the front door to a large hall (it has frosted glass panels either side so keeps the hall bright and light) On your right there is a door to the garage then the stairs to the upper floors. On the left side are two doors and an archway. First is the archway to a small anteroom/boot room with old fashioned fitted pew seats, big brass coat hooks and hat shelves with bevelled mirrors – you walk though this little room to a further arch at the back which leads to a utility room with a full size sink under the window, tumble dryer, washing machine, pulley maid and a large pantry with all the cleaning products/ironing board/vacuum in. The boiler is in this room. There is a wired in smoke alarm and a carbon monoxide alarm.

The previous owners had a microwave oven/kettle/hot plate/toaster for the use of the lodger in this room – plenty of cupboard space for all their crockery and utensils. But as the wash/dryer machines, heating controls and pantry are for the use of the house and there are no doors - the lodger doesn’t have exclusive use of the room. (This doesn’t mean we wouldn’t respect use and privacy – it’s more to ensure the line between lodger and tenant is clearly marked)

The first door is to a downstairs loo that was converted some years ago into a full 4 piece bathroom. It has no window but is a big room with lots of space and well aired and lit with good lighting (I hate bathrooms with no windows – but this is not bad) again, as this is a downstairs loo the lodger would not have exclusive use of this room. (Again - This doesn’t mean we wouldn’t respect use and privacy)

The final door is the lodger’s bed room – nice big double with floor to ceiling doors out to the fully enclosed courtyard garden (and good blinds and curtains if a wall of glass in a bed room gives anyone heebie jeebies)

The hall then dog legs round to behind the staircase and flows back towards the garage. Making an open space the size of the lodger’s bed room with a second set of patio doors on the back wall to the garden. This space is just an extension of the hall there is no doors and it’s the only way to access the garden directly from the house (though you can from the garage). This being said it can’t be seen when you enter as the stairs obscure it so it’s a relatively private space where a small sofa, chair, tv and desk can happily fit.

First floor – should never need to be accessed by the lodger - has a kitchen, dining room and lounge – second floor has master bed, ensuite, second bedroom and master bath – third has a tiny gable room as a junk room /reading nook

So hopefully that has reassured everyone.

In regards to the issue ’if’ we ever will get a lodger or ‘if not’ how we are going ahead – Mr. and I had a sit down chat. It didn’t go well. We both agreed to some ground rules so things would remain constructive as we both found this an emotive subject. So it looked like everything was going to be discussed in a grownup fashion. However it lasted for 5 whole mins before everything got inflammatory and the ground rules ended up being thrown right out the window. Mr. stormed off to see his sister and I went to work.

On waking this morning I had received a cryptic text overnight from him about his sister being livid and cake/wanting to eat it. – Not sure if he means me, or him or there was actual cake lol. Then a further one offering to go out to dinner and chat like adults.

(ps - please be assured the third job money is for needs - not wants. Overpayments mean when we re- mortage we have a better LTV - so its hard work now but it will reduce our outgoings considerably next year)

Upon reading your latest post I am even more resolute about my previous advice.

You are actually being very generous to this lodger, I know people that pay £800 for a lot less and they work for merchant banks!

I think your partner is behaving like a spoilt child and bringing in his sister will simply damage your relationship. You do not live for her approval or sanction; the simple fact is you bought that house with an agreement that it would be let.

Perhaps now is the time to increase the stakes, to say that if he is not prepared to honour his agreement you will simply pay all your income to your own account and pay £600 less than usual to the joint accout. He can make up the difference.

In fact I would transfer all of your money out of the joint account NOW, it is him who had reneged on the agreement, hell he can't even agree to how he is going to conduct himself and then he storms out to whinge to sister.

Well if he carries on the way he is going he will be whinging about having lost his partner!

For now I would take the money and then say something like:

"when you are prepared to discuss this matter like an adult I will be willing to sit down with you, meanwhile I have removed my income from the Joint Account and will not be contributing any more to it until this matter is resolved. If you want to renege on the agreement and very basis that we bought this house, then it is only fair that you pay for the shortfall of £600. I am not prepared to share this additional expense because it has been caused entirely by your obstreperous attitude and behaviour. I should not have to take a 3rd job to subsidise your lifestyle at the expense of mine, so I will be giving up that 3rd job and living off the additional £600 income that I had every right to expect based on our agreement. "

gettingtheresometime

I don't normally stalk posters as to what they've written on other posts but something you posted on another thread I thought was useful in the argument that you're having now :


I go for the silent treatment. The OH and I are both really laid back so arguments are really rare. We ave one every 7 years lol

This being said, if i get my dander up i go from sweet, pleasant and chilled to a massive thundering temper - huge. I mean erupting volcano type of outburst - made all the suprising as i am normally very quiet and gentle.

So massive that it takes a while for me to simmer down. I am not talking the days or weeks people on here have mentioned but a day or so.

I love my wonderful OH and wouldn't want to say the nasty horrible things that rise to the surface when my temper is raging - its not fair or right. but my temper has a itchy trigger finger for a few days.

So i shut up and avoid until the lid is back on the box.

As we are adults we can talk about it later so he knows this is my coping mechanism, its not a punishment or a rebuke.

(he sulks, really sulks - uggh. Luckily, as said before its rare we argue - thank goodness as it brings out the worst in both of us)


At the moment it seems that you're both determined to 'get your own way' so the heat needs to come out of the situation. Agree not to discuss it for a week in which time you can both think of solutions to how you can maximise your income and minimise your outgoings...and what each of you are prepared to compromise on and what you're not.


each of you also has to think of the cons against your particular pov and come up with a workable solution - so in your case would there be an increase in buildings / contents insurance? How would you ensure your privacy.

gettingtheresometime

LeesArt wrote: »

Upon reading your latest post I am even more resolute about my previous advice.

You are actually being very generous to this lodger, I know people that pay £800 for a lot less and they work for merchant banks!

I think your partner is behaving like a spoilt child and bringing in his sister will simply damage your relationship. You do not live for her approval or sanction; the simple fact is you bought that house with an agreement that it would be let.

Perhaps now is the time to increase the stakes, to say that if he is not prepared to honour his agreement you will simply pay all your income to your own account and pay £600 less than usual to the joint accout. He can make up the difference.

In fact I would transfer all of your money out of the joint account NOW, it is him who had reneged on the agreement, hell he can't even agree to how he is going to conduct himself and then he storms out to whinge to sister.

Well if he carries on the way he is going he will be whinging about having lost his partner!

For now I would take the money and then say something like:

"when you are prepared to discuss this matter like an adult I will be willing to sit down with you, meanwhile I have removed my income from the Joint Account and will not be contributing any more to it until this matter is resolved. If you want to renege on the agreement and very basis that we bought this house, then it is only fair that you pay for the shortfall of £600. I am not prepared to share this additional expense because it has been caused entirely by your obstreperous attitude and behaviour. I should not have to take a 3rd job to subsidise your lifestyle at the expense of mine, so I will be giving up that 3rd job and living off the additional £600 income that I had every right to expect based on our agreement. "

Are you a divorce lawyer per chance?


Seriously emotions need to be cooled so an adult discussion can take place!


As for whinging to his sister how do you know what she said to him? My BF tells me what I need to hear not what I'd like to hear...perhaps his sister was the same & just gave him a woman's pov?

getmore4less

I have read the other post and they covered most of the other things but this(highlighted below) stood out for me.

Elinore wrote: »

Firstly a little introduction – we normally are two happy like minded adults who tend to have a loving and agreeable relationship, we have been together since we were 17. So this type of discord is very out of the ordinary however we are both stressed currently the Mr. has a sister undergoing cancer treatment and I have some major work and life issues.

The issue- Our money situation. Last year we finally bought a house after years and years of saving. Immediately a few things went wrong with the house, our cars and the Dog, as these things tend to do (ps the dog is all good now) these costs killed our remaining savings dead. We also have some changes that significantly increased our outgoings, we are also over paying to get a better mortgage rate when we renew as we have a rubbish FTB/low LTV deal.

We are used to cutting our cloth so we have done so, me on the understanding that the house (think a London style town house with a basement flat – it not quite as its doesn’t have its own front door but its close enough for illustration purposes) the ground floor would be let to a lodger – which was one of the reasons we bought this property. The Mr. has been putting this off for months and months and then last month stated that he had changed his mind and didn’t want a lodger.

Cue shock.

He very adamant.

I am angry and frustrated.

The ‘flat’ (£600 PCM) could free up some significant pennies to replenish the savings and also we have been living on the edge for ages I am running out, wearing out or not having - everything from work clothes to haircuts. I genuinely feel a mess and get moaned at if I spend a few quid of foundation or hairspray!

And here is started the argument – I got third job

Evening job is being paid into my account alone and the Mr. has gone bonkers. He pays his OT (his second job) and oncall, bonuses and awards into the joint and I have taken another job and am keeping the money all for myself.

My argument is get a lodger and I won’t have to have THREE JOBS to pay the effing bills and not feel like I am not robbing our account to get my flipping haircut, buy shoes because my old ones are falling apart and so on.....

His argument is that we are doing fine all the bills are being met and as we are in our own home for the first time he is enjoying it just being us (subtext – he likes this routine is not a people person and doesn’t want the hassle even though I will run the whole thing) never mind it was one of the main reasons for buying this style of house!

Mine is, bully for you your second job is doing a few extra hours home working for your employer – I work my day job, go off and do a evening job and a small weekend cleaning role so I am doing more effing hours than a junior doctor (no offense to Dr's I know your job is harder)

So the current state of play after a major major row last night..

He thinks I am being Me,Me,Me and hording money – unfair as every penny of his money is contributed

I think he’s being unreasonable, reduced the household in effect by £600 so this is my money.

Looks to me that he is getting the benefit of the place and you are yet to engage in that because you are out a lot more.

from the later post it is clear this is a big place and you stretched to buy it but you are never there to enjoy it where he is home a lot more and that will influence how you feel about other people in the place even a fairly self contained lodger.

If you can I think you need to step back and rework the finances properly based on You have this place and no lodger as part of that review include the lifestyle benefits of the property(eg. how much time you both use it)

If the goals and objectives have changed then the way forward need replanning as well.


What does he do when you are not there?

bagpussbear

Ronaldo_Mconaldo wrote: »

5 jobs between 2 of you. I would be re-evaluating everything altogether. What’s the point of all of it if you’re working all day 7 days a week. Cut back on your costs, downsize your house. Do you have kids? Sounds like a nightmare.

Anyway, in answer to the original question: sometimes it is easier to back down just to have a quiet life.

This, absolutely.

5 jobs between you?! You must be exhausted. No wonder there are arguments. Your lives sound chaotic. As Ronaldo says, you need to re-evaluate things as a whole, it's not about anyone being right or wrong on this.

As much as I understand you feeling frustrated at your husband moving the goalposts about the lodger situation, I also feel he has a right to change his mind, it's a big thing.

However it does mean that the house is no longer really viable.

My advice, move to somewhere smaller, where you can reduce your outgoings thus eliminating the need for so many jobs. You'll have more time to yourselves, less stress, no arguments. Have a joint account where only the household, bills, savings go out from, and all other money you keep to yourselves so you can spend on what you need without the other criticising or querying.

Arguments and ego are relationship killers. Make some changes, keep life simple, that's my advice.