Smart Meters

Gerry1

carl.waring said:

Yes. Didn't say those features weren't there. I just meant that they're there to prevent any issues with the supply. ie nothing nefarious or under-handed. Just common sense.

Glad you now agree that there's no conspiracy theory, it's all factual.  But little or none of this has been publicised to Joe Public, it's always been about the magic of the shiny IHD toy and how much you'll save with a smart meter.  Unfortunately, that saving is now officially estimated at a mere £11 per year, which is an absolutely dreadful rate of return on the £475-ish cost of a smart meter installation: unlike a savings account, you'll never get a penny of the capital cost of your investment returned.

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/electric-car-surge-exclusive-power-cuts-national-grid-overload-1366304

It may be that Joe Public would prefer to be cut off at peak times when demand exceeds supply rather than paying for the investment in new power stations needed to keep the lights on.  But this should have been explained rather than having Time of Use, Block Tariffs, Load Limiting and Load Shedding all quietly made possible (probable?) by stealth.  Honest and Transparent it ain't !

carl.waring

"As electric car use surges, the national grid is at risk of being overloaded unless action is taken now". And that action is why they have built-in these safeguards like load-limiting, etc. Always better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, right?

You think "joe public" are happy with power cuts? Seriously?! I work from home so a power-cut would be a disaster for me. Hell! Loss of broadband is that, never mind a power cut. And I'm sure it wouldn't be particularly welcome for office workers or anyone else who happens to use electricity at all. You know, basically everyone  🙄 No. I think a regular supply would beat any other option. Would for me, for sure.

And, again, I'm fairly certain that no-one's ever said you would save money simply by having a smart meter installed.

PS You know that Standing Charge you pay? You know what that's used for, right? 🤦‍♂️

Gerry1

carl.waring said:

I work from home so a power-cut would be a disaster for me. Hell! Loss of broadband is that, never mind a power cut. And I'm sure it wouldn't be particularly welcome for office workers or anyone else who happens to use electricity at all. You know, basically everyone  🙄 No. I think a regular supply would beat any other option. Would for me, for sure.

That's precisely why I don't want a smart meter Load Limiting me or Load Shedding me !  But we've never been told about these hidden capabilities.  You're making a very good argument against smart meters !

carl.waring said:

And, again, I'm fairly certain that no-one's ever said you would save money simply by having a smart meter installed.

WRONG !  The Advertising Standards Authority ruled against Smart Energy GB for saying "Crikey, we use so much energy everyday it is exhausting. And expensive. But with a smart meter you get an expected average saving of 354 kilowatt hours."https://www.asa.org.uk/rulings/smart-metering-communications-body-ltd-a18-457472.html

victor2

Gerry1 said:

That's precisely why I don't want a smart meter Load Limiting me or Load Shedding me !...

Some sort of load limiting is inevitable in the not too distant future, particularly as we barely have enough generating power now to meet our needs, never mind as the government pushes everyone towards electric vehicles.

Having spent time in a country with poorer infrastructure than the UK, and well before smart metering was a possibility, their solution was simple - domestic users had electricity for 6 hours a day. People got used to it and lived with it. Some bought their own generators, but most just accepted it.

carl.waring

1. Upheld in relation to ad (a) only

The ASA considered consumers would interpret the claims in each ad differently. The voice-over in ad (a) began by listing multiple sources of everyday energy use around the house. We considered this claim, followed by “Crikey, we use so much energy everyday it is exhausting. And expensive” would be interpreted by listeners as an implication that households typically used a large amount of energy. The ad subsequently claimed “With a smart meter you get an expected average saving of 354 kilowatt hours”, which we considered would be interpreted as an indication that following installation, the smart meter itself would be able to reduce a household’s energy usage by roughly that amount; particularly because the main body of the of ad didn’t otherwise make clear that it was the result of change in the everyday energy usage mentioned earlier. We acknowledged that the ad ended with a qualification that stated, “Savings possible by measuring energy usage and reducing wastage”. However, because this was separated from the main claim, we did not consider it provided sufficient clarification to override listeners’ overall interpretation of the ad.

So I was right. They didn't say that simply installing the Smart Meter would instantly save you money. They qualified the statement. The only problem was that they didn't connect the two close enough in the ad. Which I entirely agree with. However, I was still right.

And yes, I know you don't want to be load-limited, etc. I'd rather not be either. But if that's what needs to happen to maintain supply then we'll have to learn to live with it. Nothing in life is perfect; but that imperfection shouldn't be a reason to stop the advance of technology.

carl.waring

victor2 said:

Gerry1 said:

That's precisely why I don't want a smart meter Load Limiting me or Load Shedding me !...

Some sort of load limiting is inevitable in the not too distant future, particularly as we barely have enough generating power now to meet our needs, never mind as the government pushes everyone towards electric vehicles.

Having spent time in a country with poorer infrastructure than the UK, and well before smart metering was a possibility, their solution was simple - domestic users had electricity for 6 hours a day. People got used to it and lived with it. Some bought their own generators, but most just accepted it.

Oh don't start with common sense and logic.  

Was that in Africa, by the way? Been hearing about their power shortages on the BBC's Digital Planet and Click.

Gerry1

carl.waring said:

And yes, I know you don't want to be load-limited, etc. I'd rather not be either. But if that's what needs to happen to maintain supply then we'll have to learn to live with it.

Well, we should have been asked whether we want to skimp on network reliability and end up with a wonky creaking network with everything falling over when it gets cold, a power station wobbles, lightning strikes or the wind blows.

Instead they've adopted the Trojan Horse strategy and that's just dishonest.

sparrowhawk123

Say no to smart meters, re-install analogue meters.

Watch takebackyour power film, view stopsmartmeters org uk site and ehtrust org site

Seems to me that if people point out negative/critical information on the subject of smart meters the standard response is to portray them as conspiracy theorists. 

If you want to make an informed decision you have to look at different sources of information, and then decide what you as an individual feel is correct. 

carl.waring

I checked out the first site you mentioned. First picture on there says "Big Energy Scam". Well it isn't, so that's a lie to start with. Next picture compares with "Big Brother". More utter crap. It reads the flow of energy through the meter; nothing else. Then something about affects on blood. Pure fiction. I couldn't be bothered after that. 

It is so ironic that "the standard response is to portray them as conspiracy theorists". There's a reason for that. It's because that's all it is. My worry, of course, is that some people will be taken in by that utter nonsense rather than actual facts. 

Here's a brilliantly laughable example.

"Smart Meters Used in Scotland to Spy on Consumer TV Habits

…Research has revealed that Scottish viewers are the most likely to watch the highest number of episodes back-to-back, with the average reaching a record high of seven programmes….

The data from Scottish Gas shows that in 2015 entertainment energy usage in Scotland hit an annual high in April last year….

The utility company collected the information from Smart meters which come with a smart energy monitor, which gives households a better understanding of their energy use by showing them exactly what energy they are using on entertainment devices…"

Except that this is exactly the same as the headlines about increased electricity usage after a World Cup footy match and is nothing to do with your smart meter "spying" on you.
🙄🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️

More than happy with constructive criticism. Pity you don't have any to discuss.

Talldave

Whilst it is technically possible to spot consumption footprints for some devices (eg devices with constant load such as kettles, fridges, freezers, boilers) the TV is one device where consumption will vary considerably based on content and brightness, making it very difficult to track. And of course smart meters are incapable of doing any such realtime analysis anyway.