Smart Meters

carl.waring

I didn't actually know that last bit 

Talldave

You can get energy monitors that will count the flashes and do the maths, giving you a live consumption readout. For meters without LEDs you use a clip on monitor device - less accurate,  particularly at very low consumption levels,  but perfectly adequate for an energy audit.

Gerry1

There are pros and cons for each type.  A flash counter will as accurate as the meter, but that means that it can't detect an inaccurate meter.  The clip on version is independent so it can help detect a rogue meter but it can't measure the voltage so it's less accurate.

carl.waring

But as smart meters are free there's no good reason to bother with these "bodge" jobs.

As usual, you only hear about the problems with any given thing, including Smart Meters. You will never hear about the majority of people who are perfectly happy with them.

Gerry1

carl.waring said:

But as smart meters are free there's no good reason to bother with these "bodge" jobs.

An energy monitor can't limit your load, it can't charge you a prohibitively expensive Time of Use peak tariff, nor can it disconnect you remotely if you refuse to obey it !

brewerdave

carl.waring said:

As usual, you only hear about the problems with any given thing, including Smart Meters. You will never hear about the majority of people who are perfectly happy with them.

This is a money saving site. As a result the majority of posters on here ,are serial switchers - I very much doubt if the "people who are perfectly happy with them"  have ever switched supplier in their lives, let alone to a cheaper ,small supplier.
 IF you are one of the many millions of BG customers and have stayed with them for X years, you may well be happy with your smart meters - but also you may be several hundred pounds per annum worse off.   

carl.waring

True; but then there's no indication that any of those will happen with smart meters. Anything is possible, of course, but let's have a look at the things you mention.
Load Limiting. Isn't this a good idea to prevent strain or breakdown on the system?
Time Of Use. If you want to look at at it that way, those on E7 are already charged via "time of use" tariff. So no change there then.
Disconnections. Right now, if you refuse to pay, your energy company can - if they have to - force their way into your property to cut you off. Far easier, quicker and cheaper to do it remotely. Of course, this won't be needed if you simply pay for what you use. Most people do; and there is plenty of help available for those that get into difficulty. Of course, as I have previously mentioned, one of those "difficulties" can arise through prolonged use of estimated readings, which are the one thing that Smart Meters will get rid of for ever for everyone.

Gerry1

carl.waring said:

Load Limiting. Isn't this a good idea to prevent strain or breakdown on the system?

A good idea would be to invest in sufficient generating capacity.  I don't think many people will like having to choose between having heating and having a hot meal at the right time.  But it's very noble of you to have a smart meter and be liable to be load limited or load shedded - that means there'll be enough for me !

carl.waring said:

Time Of Use. If you want to look at at it that way, those on E7 are already charged via "time of use" tariff. So no change there then.

My E7 meter can't charge me 41.94p/kWh at peak times.

carl.waring said:

Disconnections. Right now, if you refuse to pay, your energy company can - if they have to - force their way into your property to cut you off. Far easier, quicker and cheaper to do it remotely. Of course, this won't be needed if you simply pay for what you use. Most people do; and there is plenty of help available for those that get into difficulty. Of course, as I have previously mentioned, one of those "difficulties" can arise through prolonged use of estimated readings, which are the one thing that Smart Meters will get rid of for ever for everyone.

Total red herring - I'm talking about remote disconnection to enforce load limiting and individual load shedding, not disconnection because of non payment.

thorganby

carl.waring said:

johnc said:

Whats the general consensus on whether to get a Smart Meter or not? My electrician told me not to bother as the old meters are better and more reliable. Are the in home displays actually useful at all? I would love to see for instance whether my Fridge/Freezer is causing my electric bill to go up by looking at the usage overnight for instance. 

There is no good reason not to get one. All of the 'reasons' you see or hear about on the news, etc., are mostly nonsense.

Oh, and yes, you would be able to see that with the IHD.

(Can't post links yet but look for the Smart Energy GB website.

carl.waring said:

Yes. That's the only possible reason I'm posting in favour of smart meters 🙄🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️
Or perhaps it's really just because I believe in facts and common sense and not nonsense.

The smart energy UK website is full of inaccurate nonsense and therefore certainly cannot be trusted as a reliable source of information about smart meters!

Smart Energy UK said - Can I still get a smart meter if my home has poor mobile signal?
If you live in an area with poor mobile telephone reception you can either request a first generation meter that uses this network, but may experience difficulties sending readings to your supplier automatically. Alternatively, you can contact your energy supplier and insist that they install a second generation meter, known as SMETS2. A SMETS2 meter is not reliant upon the mobile phone network and by the end of the rollout this network will have coverage of 99.25% of Great Britain.

Obviously the person who wrote this is totally ignorant of how data is actually transferred.

Smart Energy UK said - How secure are smart meters?

Security has been at the heart of the whole smart meter rollout programme from its very inception, and the system has been specifically designed to prevent hacking. Smart meters do not use the internet, and they have their own closed, dedicated communications system. Smart meters have been designed with top cyber security experts, including the government and GCHQ, to ensure that security best practice has been incorporated at every stage.

More rubbish because it was actually GCHQ that insisted that the original security was totally inadequate and that it needed to be enhanced end to end.

Security has been at the heart of the whole smart meter rollout programme from its very inception, and the system has been specifically designed to prevent hacking. Smart meters do not use the internet, and they have their own closed, dedicated communications system. Smart meters have been designed with top cyber security experts, including the government and GCHQ, to ensure that security best practice has been incorporated at every stage.

More rubbish because it was actually GCHQ that insisted that the original security was totally inadequate and that it needed to be enhanced end to end.

Smart Energy UK said - How much will the rollout cost Great Britain?

Smart meters are an essential upgrade to an outdated system. The savings of nearly £17 billion will far outweigh the investment of almost £11 billion - meaning an overall saving of nearly £6 billion between now and 2030.

Yet more rubbish. Smart meters are not essential and some countries have decided that they are simply not worthwhile for domestic users.

The finger in the air projected propaganda savings are pure fantasy and the actual costs will be well in excess of £11 billion and actual savings for consumers negligible!

Customers with smart meters are still paying estimated bills and not charged for their actual usage - why?
Smart meters are an essential upgrade to an outdated system. The savings of nearly £17 billion will far outweigh the investment of almost £11 billion - meaning an overall saving of nearly £6 billion between now and 2030.

Yet more rubbish. Smart meters are not essential and some countries have decided that they are simply not worthwhile for domestic users.

The finger in the air projected propaganda savings are pure fantasy and the actual costs will be well in excess of £11 billion and actual savings for consumers negligible!

Customers with smart meters are still paying estimated bills and not charged for their actual usage - why?

Only the gullible believe Smart Energy UK!

Talldave

carl.waring said:

But as smart meters are free there's no good reason to bother with these "bodge" jobs.

As usual, you only hear about the problems with any given thing, including Smart Meters. You will never hear about the majority of people who are perfectly happy with them.

Sorry, but the IHDs supplied with Smart Meters are the "bodge" jobs, with stupidly low range, a focus on price (which is probably quoted incorrectly) and useless CO info that nobody will ever read.  How would your free toy export consumption data to a PC, tablet or the Cloud?  Proper products, that tech-savvy users will be happy to pay for will do the job properly.

And before you discount my opinions, I was nearly dragged into a project to develop and design the early IHDs, so I've had full exposure to the energy industry's incompetence in specifying something they don't understand.  The whole project is an unmitigated disaster - millions of SMETS1 meters installed in a hurry when SMETS2 was only part way there to getting a working solution of what we really need for smart grids; ludicrous deadlines, technology that doesn't work for all homes, etc etc.  The energy industry today struggles to cope with occasional meter readings (see dozens of related threads on here) and yet is trying to build a system that will flood them with data they really don't know how to handle.  The meter reading validation organisations are useless - being incapable of understanding the human behaviour that affects the meters they monitor. 

There's really nothing right about the industry at the end of the day.  I look forward to a Tesco or Virgin style company coming to the market and offering exciting time of use tariffs with "buy one get one free" overnight offers for car charging etc.  But hey, let's be realistic, if we all start charging cars the cables under the pavement will catch fire - but again, nobody's dealing with that problem yet, because there's no joined up thinking, at all.