Smart Meters

carl.waring

Gerry1 said:

carl.waring said:

Load Limiting. Isn't this a good idea to prevent strain or breakdown on the system?

A good idea would be to invest in sufficient generating capacity.  I don't think many people will like having to choose between having heating and having a hot meal at the right time.  But it's very noble of you to have a smart meter and be liable to be load limited or load shedded - that means there'll be enough for me !

carl.waring said:

Time Of Use. If you want to look at at it that way, those on E7 are already charged via "time of use" tariff. So no change there then.

My E7 meter can't charge me 41.94p/kWh at peak times.

carl.waring said:

Disconnections. Right now, if you refuse to pay, your energy company can - if they have to - force their way into your property to cut you off. Far easier, quicker and cheaper to do it remotely. Of course, this won't be needed if you simply pay for what you use. Most people do; and there is plenty of help available for those that get into difficulty. Of course, as I have previously mentioned, one of those "difficulties" can arise through prolonged use of estimated readings, which are the one thing that Smart Meters will get rid of for ever for everyone.

Total red herring - I'm talking about remote disconnection to enforce load limiting and individual load shedding, not disconnection because of non payment.

1. Of course. But spending less on, for example, sending people out to read meters for those people who can't do it themselves will save time and money to invest in other areas.

2. No but your energy provider can if they want to, with or without smart meters.

3. Okay. Well sorry, I don't deal in hypotheticals that may never happen.

carl.waring

Talldave said:

carl.waring said:

But as smart meters are free there's no good reason to bother with these "bodge" jobs.

As usual, you only hear about the problems with any given thing, including Smart Meters. You will never hear about the majority of people who are perfectly happy with them.

Sorry, but the IHDs supplied with Smart Meters are the "bodge" jobs, with stupidly low range, a focus on price (which is probably quoted incorrectly) and useless CO info that nobody will ever read.  How would your free toy export consumption data to a PC, tablet or the Cloud?  Proper products, that tech-savvy users will be happy to pay for will do the job properly.

I don't entirely disagree with your assessment of the IHD. In fact, I know mine would remain unused in a drawer. However, if some people even find them a little useful then their job is done. That said, you seem to have forgotten that are designed for the general public, most of which may not be as "tech-savvy" as you or I and therefore will not need the export options you mention. Hell, even I wouldn't need them and I'm the geekiest person I know!

thorganby

carl.waring said:

johnc said:

Whats the general consensus on whether to get a Smart Meter or not? My electrician told me not to bother as the old meters are better and more reliable. Are the in home displays actually useful at all? I would love to see for instance whether my Fridge/Freezer is causing my electric bill to go up by looking at the usage overnight for instance. 

There is no good reason not to get one. All of the 'reasons' you see or hear about on the news, etc., are mostly nonsense.

Oh, and yes, you would be able to see that with the IHD.

(Can't post links yet but look for the Smart Energy GB website.

carl.waring said:

Talldave said:

carl.waring said:

But as smart meters are free there's no good reason to bother with these "bodge" jobs.

As usual, you only hear about the problems with any given thing, including Smart Meters. You will never hear about the majority of people who are perfectly happy with them.

Sorry, but the IHDs supplied with Smart Meters are the "bodge" jobs, with stupidly low range, a focus on price (which is probably quoted incorrectly) and useless CO info that nobody will ever read.  How would your free toy export consumption data to a PC, tablet or the Cloud?  Proper products, that tech-savvy users will be happy to pay for will do the job properly.

I don't entirely disagree with your assessment of the IHD. In fact, I know mine would remain unused in a drawer. However, if some people even find them a little useful then their job is done. That said, you seem to have forgotten that are designed for the general public, most of which may not be as "tech-savvy" as you or I and therefore will not need the export options you mention. Hell, even I wouldn't need them and I'm the geekiest person I know!

You lost all credibility when you posted that we should read the nonsense on the Smart Energy GB website!

The obvious inaccuracies on that site show that you are definitely not "tech-savvy" at all.

carl.waring

Oh please! Let me guess. You don't believe any source for anything. They're all "corrupt", "liars" or "propaganda". Only you know "the truth" 🙄🤦‍♂️

Okay. Try SmartMe .co.uk  instead then. A lot more in-depth by the looks of it.

I look forward to some random, anonymous person on a forum telling me what I should and shouldn't believe.

[Deleted User]

This may well be my one and only post. It is evident from reading this lengthy thread that a number of posters have fixed views on smart meters without any real evidence to back up what they are posting. Some of what is posted is true but a lot is just un-necessary scaremongering. What I am about to post is based on 9 months experience of SMETS2 smart meters (Landis and Gyr).

The meters were installed in June 2019. The installation took nearly 5 hours because of issues with the App that the installer uses to deregister the old meters; register the new meters; pair the meters and establish communications with the DCC. Both meters have worked since day 1; however, in early December the gas meter stopped recording usage. It would stop for a few hours/days and then start again. The supplier was informed and the problem was attributed to a botched firmware update that had affected 100 or so of their gas meters. The supplier continued to bill me for actual meter readings. The gas meter has now been working fine for over 3 weeks so I assume that new firmware has been rolled out.

The IHD is the weakest part of the set up. ZigBee range is limited and the connection is often lost. Not that it really matters as far as I am concerned. The supplier is working with Chameleon to update the IHD firmware.

The one major problem that I have encountered has been billing. My supplier does not have a direct link to the DCC: it uses a third-party systems integrator. The billing problem relates to the fact that the supplier’s automatic billing system requires accurate daily data, and an occasional day’s data has gone missing. Up until late last year, the supplier had no way of recovering this lost data. This has now been resolved and I am receiving accurate monthly bills.

And now to the bit that seems to generate a lot of thread space. Am I worried about the possibility of remote disconnection? No I am not not. It will still require a Court Order and based on the fact that only 14 households were physically disconnected from the Grid in 2017, the risk of disconnection is small. However, I do question the judgement of those who insisted that this facility was built into smart meter design.

I am also on a 30 minute ToU tariff which has peak unit costs of up to 35p/kWh during the early evening period. We do not find this in anyway intimidating and whilst we are careful of what we do and do not do at teatime, it will not stop me from having fish and chips for tea tonight. The other side of the coin is that we can often put the washing machine and dishwasher on when the unit price is well below 5p/kWh. 

I admit to being somewhat OCD about energy statistics: those who worry about ToU tariffs might be surprised to learn that my average unit prices for December; January and February (until yesterday) are 9.9p/kwh; 9.8p/kWh and 8.64p/kWh.

In sum, smart metering does work; it still has ongoing technical issues which my supplier is working hard to resolve and ToU tariffs can save money if usage is managed proactively by the consumer.

Oops :Sorry about the double spacing.

carl.waring

A well-reasoned post that cannot really be argued with.

It's interesting that the issues you have had are actually nothing to do with the Smart Meters themselves. (BTW, install should take no-longer than one hour per meter.)

It is also odd that your supplier does not have a direct link to the DCC. As far as I know they should all have one as that's how the system works.

You are also right that there is a lot of mis-information out there. Unfortunately, most of it seems to come from those opposed to the technology.

Is it perfect? No. Is anything? No. Is that a reason to stifle technological advances? No.

Gerry1

Dolor said:

And now to the bit that seems to generate a lot of thread space. Am I worried about the possibility of remote disconnection? No I am not not. It will still require a Court Order and based on the fact that only 14 households were physically disconnected from the Grid in 2017, the risk of disconnection is small. However, I do question the judgement of those who insisted that this facility was built into smart meter design.

You're just repeating the official publicity, relating to permanent disconnection for non payment.  That's not relevant to the Load Limiting and Load Shedding functionality that's been built in to the smart meter functionality, which doesn't need a court order.

Do you really think it was built in because they were twiddling their thumbs on a wet Wednesday afternoon and couldn't think of anything better to do?

carl.waring

See what I mean? Conspiracy theory nonsense. 🙄

Gerry1

The specifications are all there in black and white if you care to read them.  But you wouldn't want to be confused by the facts, would you?

http://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/tris/en/index.cfm/search/?trisaction=search.detail&year=2018&num=150&fLang=EN&dNum=1  Refer to lines 1305, 4349, 4516 etc.

And here are examples of the restrictions being implemented.

https://businesstech.co.za/news/energy/93809/how-power-load-limiting-works/

https://www.esi-africa.com/industry-sectors/energy-efficiency/load-limiting-a-smart-solution-to-reduce-the-need-for-load-shedding/

https://www.itweb.co.za/content/klLn147mpVgvJ6Aa

No conspiracy, just plain facts.  Sorry to disappoint you.

carl.waring

Yes. Didn't say those features weren't there. I just meant that they're there to prevent any issues with the supply. ie nothing nefarious or under-handed. Just common sense.