Land Registry questions

Land_Registry

sreilly3623 said:

Land_Registry said:

sreilly3623 said:

Hoping to get some information on the expected timescale of an expedited application. I know that this is usually 10 days, but can take longer in general but I am hoping someone can give us an indication of how much longer we will need to wait. Here are the details of our case:

The house we are trying to buy was not registered properly by the sellers’ solicitors when they came to buy it. This means that it is currently a case of adverse possession. The sellers have been granted an expedition by the Land Registry and we are now into the 3rd week after this was granted. We have sold our property and are currently in temporary accommodation so are very keen to complete asap, which we can do as soon as this registration issue has been solved.
In a case like this with adverse possession due to a solicitor’s mistake and with an expedition, could you give any more information on the expected timescale for how long we will need to wait?

many thanks,
Simon

Not without more details such as the title number but if it’s a general comment you want then it may be some time still. 

Expedition reduces the wait time form sitting waiting to be processed it it being considered by a caseworker. 

If there’s adverse possession involved then it’s likely to go to a senior officer as well to consider the Stat Dec provided
if that’s ok then we need a survey (2 weeks) to check the reality on the ground
If that’s ok then we are likely to have to contact neighbouring land owners to see if they agree or not (3 weeks). If it’s registered to someone then they’d need contacting
So from expedition approval to registration completion will still take time. The conveyancer can track progress re each stage for you but it’s still at least a 2 month wait in my experience and if it’s all in order 

Here are the title numbers: MAN132972 - Freehold; GM813526 - Headlease. 

Thanks for the information so far. Any further information would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Simon

There nothing pending against either title and nothing submitted for a few years now
Presumably something else is happening with conveyancers involved so worth double checking

Splibba64

@Land_Registry

Advice re' TR1 and AP1 forms please

Hello there, 

I previously posted to the wrong area as I hadn’t realised that this thread was here and although canaldumidi kindly replied and corrected me that fee scale 1 applies, they cautioned they are not a solicitor so I have repeated some here plus now have additional questions so I hope it’s ok to re-post (in the correct thread this time hopefully!).

My husband and I are purchasing my siblings half of an inherited property (which we live in) as per the terms of my late mothers will which gives us the option to buy my siblings’ share. I am also the executor for her estate and have Grant of Probate. 

We were advised via a call to LR that my husband and I should complete forms TR1, ID1 & AP1 and were sent the document 'Transfer of property to the beneficiary after the sole owner has died' which was helpful and mentions that I will need to show the transaction is for full market value and authorised under the terms of the will. 

Having read the written guidance and watched the videos, I'm still unsure on a few things though and hope you can help please? 

Apologies in advance for any dumb questions but don’t want to waste everyone’s time sending incorrect forms.

TR1 - Panel 12

As transferor and also a transferee, is it necessary for me to sign the execution panel twice to represent execution of both my roles?

AP1 - Panel 4

Application... should the wording be Transfer by way of inheritance or just Transfer?

Price paid/value... I have entered the amount we are paying to my brother for his share. Should (share) be written next to this and I write what the full market value is elsewhere, maybe on a covering letter ?

Should I enclose a copy of my mothers will to confirm our option to buy siblings half is in the will or is that not required as my brother (in the USA) is in complete agreement with us buying him out, the amount agreed and happy to provide a written statement to confirm. Canaldumidi mentioned that maybe all beneficiaries should sign it but it would be good to know what the LR’s requirements are? We can easily do both if helpful?

Finally, as we don't have a conveyancer, would enclosing an estate agents written valuation for full market price and the relevant sold comparables be considered acceptable evidence or, if not, what type of documentation would be accepted please?

Many thanks in advance.

Land_Registry

Splibba64 said:

@Land_Registry

Advice re' TR1 and AP1 forms please

Hello there, 

I previously posted to the wrong area as I hadn’t realised that this thread was here and although canaldumidi kindly replied and corrected me that fee scale 1 applies, they cautioned they are not a solicitor so I have repeated some here plus now have additional questions so I hope it’s ok to re-post (in the correct thread this time hopefully!).

My husband and I are purchasing my siblings half of an inherited property (which we live in) as per the terms of my late mothers will which gives us the option to buy my siblings’ share. I am also the executor for her estate and have Grant of Probate. 

We were advised via a call to LR that my husband and I should complete forms TR1, ID1 & AP1 and were sent the document 'Transfer of property to the beneficiary after the sole owner has died' which was helpful and mentions that I will need to show the transaction is for full market value and authorised under the terms of the will. 

Having read the written guidance and watched the videos, I'm still unsure on a few things though and hope you can help please? 

Apologies in advance for any dumb questions but don’t want to waste everyone’s time sending incorrect forms.

TR1 - Panel 12

As transferor and also a transferee, is it necessary for me to sign the execution panel twice to represent execution of both my roles?

AP1 - Panel 4

Application... should the wording be Transfer by way of inheritance or just Transfer?

Price paid/value... I have entered the amount we are paying to my brother for his share. Should (share) be written next to this and I write what the full market value is elsewhere, maybe on a covering letter ?

Should I enclose a copy of my mothers will to confirm our option to buy siblings half is in the will or is that not required as my brother (in the USA) is in complete agreement with us buying him out, the amount agreed and happy to provide a written statement to confirm. Canaldumidi mentioned that maybe all beneficiaries should sign it but it would be good to know what the LR’s requirements are? We can easily do both if helpful?

Finally, as we don't have a conveyancer, would enclosing an estate agents written valuation for full market price and the relevant sold comparables be considered acceptable evidence or, if not, what type of documentation would be accepted please?

Many thanks in advance.

TR1 panel 12 - once 
AP1 panel 4 - just Transfer 
if you are buying his share and that’s the consideration then it’s Scale 1 on that amount 
No re will - we don’t need it. 

Probate gives you the legal authority to deal with the estate. The legal ownership forms part of her estate so the law expects you to do as the will requires and as agreed with any other beneficiaries. If you don’t then your sibling can challenge you in a court. They don’t execute the transfer though or need to consent as their interest is in their share of the beneficial ownership so they aren’t a party to the transfer of the legal ownership 
That valuation would be acceptable 

seasidesaver

My husband died recently, and his half share of our property has been left in trust for our three (adult) children, with a life interest for me. 

I have been advised to submit forms TR1 and AP1, together with ID3 for all parties. 

On both forms I have entered myself as applicant/transferor, and the three children plus me as transferees.  The declaration of trust states “they are to hold the property on trust: as to half for (my name) absolutely and as to half for the trustees of the will of (husband's name)”. 

In panel 4 of the AP1, I have shown the application as a transfer.

Do I also need to send form DJP, or is it sufficient to send a copy of the grant of probate?

Many thanks for you help

Land_Registry

seasidesaver said:

My husband died recently, and his half share of our property has been left in trust for our three (adult) children, with a life interest for me. 

I have been advised to submit forms TR1 and AP1, together with ID3 for all parties. 

On both forms I have entered myself as applicant/transferor, and the three children plus me as transferees.  The declaration of trust states “they are to hold the property on trust: as to half for (my name) absolutely and as to half for the trustees of the will of (husband's name)”. 

In panel 4 of the AP1, I have shown the application as a transfer.

Do I also need to send form DJP, or is it sufficient to send a copy of the grant of probate?

Many thanks for you help

You don’t need form DJP as the form AP1 is sufficient re an application
You can submit an official/certified copy of the probate or death certificate - either confirms the death. 

Out of interest may I ask where you received the advice please? I ask only to understand where such advice might be sought and not to challenge it. No obligation to reply either of course 

seasidesaver

Thanks very much for your reply.

I originally contacted the official Land Registry support number, who advised me that I needed to submit the TR1 and AP1 forms.  I downloaded the forms, and then thought that it might be better to ask a solicitor for help.  However it has proved impossible to find a solicitor who understands the issue, and is prepared to deal with it in a reasonable time frame so I have now decided to complete the forms myself.

I’ve looked at the official guidance, and the blog on gov.uk which points to MSE as being a reliable source of information.  I’ve searched through the forum, to find situations similar to my own, and have now been able to complete the forms, but just wanted to check that I hadn’t misunderstood something critical.

Land_Registry

seasidesaver said:

Thanks very much for your reply.

I originally contacted the official Land Registry support number, who advised me that I needed to submit the TR1 and AP1 forms.  I downloaded the forms, and then thought that it might be better to ask a solicitor for help.  However it has proved impossible to find a solicitor who understands the issue, and is prepared to deal with it in a reasonable time frame so I have now decided to complete the forms myself.

I’ve looked at the official guidance, and the blog on gov.uk which points to MSE as being a reliable source of information.  I’ve searched through the forum, to find situations similar to my own, and have now been able to complete the forms, but just wanted to check that I hadn’t misunderstood something critical.

Many thanks, understood and appreciated. So you asked us re which forms you needed to transfer and we were able to advise. 

The bit I’m interested in is the advice to transfer, so one stage back from the forms themselves. We can’t advise you on what to do but we can tell you which forms are needed to update the register once you’ve decided what to do. So I’m asking more to help others like you and as you say in a similar situation as the advice to transfer is the bit I’m interested in 

In my experience reading forums it’s a common scenario. Joint owners who split their beneficial ownership and leave their halves in trust but the surviving owner can stay put so to speak - apologies as easiest way for me to put it 

I always wonder what advice they both got at the time of doing that to explain what actually could happen when one of them sadly dies?
We register the legal ownership, which can’t be split, so that’s passed to you to deal with hence any transfer now would be by you to you and whoever. 

But the trust element re you staying put is in place and the beneficiaries, the children, are protected by it. Many joint owners also apply for a form A restriction (did you?) to be added to the register to indicate the trust exists and to restrict you for example selling.
If all of that was done then some might say you don’t need to do anything to transfer now. You could just complete the form DJP. And when the trust comes to an end when you die then your executors deal with both beneficial ownerships as necessary. 

As I said we don’t know what advice is given hence my asking and I often wonder if there are advantages to putting the legal ownership into joint names again when the children may already own homes for example or plan to so could be an impact there? 

As I said not challenging your advice or option but just trying to understand the scenario better as well. 

Note - I’ve searched the topic online re wider advice and here’s a link that may be of interest/help but there are others as well  
https://garner-hancock.co.uk/blog/joint-tenants-vs-tenants-in-common/
The tenants in common aspect is often linked to the form A restriction/trust I referred to hence the linked information 

silvercar

Big shout out to @Land_Registry. I've been pulling my hair out due to a problem on the lease of the flat my son is buying. 

Short version: the current owner's legal work on purchasing a car parking space after they had bought the flat was never completed. Mad panic, expediting service at LR, issues involving priority cases, change of block landlord and goodness knows what else. All explained by our kindly @Land_Registry who even checked at the weekend on processes.

Not sure we are there yet as mortgage offer runs out tomorrow and currently saying they will only extend to the completion date if we exchange by tomorrow and haven't yet had paperwork from solicitor or paid a deposit. So it may mean a new mortgage offer - but at least we now know all the legal work is correct. 

Harks200

Hoping you may be able to advise on timescales for a land registry issue please.

We are in the process of buying a new build house, which is part of a new development with 6 other homes. The house is due to be completed soon, but we've been advised that part of the land was not registered properly during the initial land sale around 1995, and they're now having to go down the route of adverse possession. We are currently in temporary accommodation, and are struggling to get any answers from the developers as to where they are up to with the application and how long we can expect to wait. Can you help at all please? The main title number is MS362914, and the additional area of land appears to be under MS428252.

Thank you in advance.

Land_Registry

Harks200 said:

Hoping you may be able to advise on timescales for a land registry issue please.

We are in the process of buying a new build house, which is part of a new development with 6 other homes. The house is due to be completed soon, but we've been advised that part of the land was not registered properly during the initial land sale around 1995, and they're now having to go down the route of adverse possession. We are currently in temporary accommodation, and are struggling to get any answers from the developers as to where they are up to with the application and how long we can expect to wait. Can you help at all please? The main title number is MS362914, and the additional area of land appears to be under MS428252.

Thank you in advance.

There’s nothing pending against either title and both are in the same ownership. As such I assume their claim would be against another title 
I should stress that any application re adverse possession, even if expedited, is likely to take at least 2-3 months to complete due to what’s involved/required 
I’d suggest asking your conveyancer/the seller for more details and timescales