Land Registry questions

forum678

Land_Registry said:

forum678 said:

Good Morning  - would it be possible for an update on FC59F48 please? Thanks

That’s an expedited first registration which is currently being processed. 

As it is an application based on adverse possession a survey has been carried out. Next steps are likely to include wider checks which will take time to complete. Hopefully they will start soon and if you are the applicant/buyer then your conveyancer can hopefully track progress for you 

Good morning - would it be possible to check if there is any further update please? Many thanks 

Land_Registry

LasDunas said:

Thank you so much for your last reply, armed with that I went back to both my solicitor  and EA, my EA assures me that it has now been submitted to yourselves could you please check for me.
The title no: is HP31866
Thank you

There’s nothing recorded as pending against that title 

Land_Registry

forum678 said:

Land_Registry said:

forum678 said:

Good Morning  - would it be possible for an update on FC59F48 please? Thanks

That’s an expedited first registration which is currently being processed. 

As it is an application based on adverse possession a survey has been carried out. Next steps are likely to include wider checks which will take time to complete. Hopefully they will start soon and if you are the applicant/buyer then your conveyancer can hopefully track progress for you 

Good morning - would it be possible to check if there is any further update please? Many thanks 

Nothing concrete but looks like it should be completed in the next few days 

forum678

Land_Registry said:

forum678 said:

Land_Registry said:

forum678 said:

Good Morning  - would it be possible for an update on FC59F48 please? Thanks

That’s an expedited first registration which is currently being processed. 

As it is an application based on adverse possession a survey has been carried out. Next steps are likely to include wider checks which will take time to complete. Hopefully they will start soon and if you are the applicant/buyer then your conveyancer can hopefully track progress for you 

Good morning - would it be possible to check if there is any further update please? Many thanks 

Nothing concrete but looks like it should be completed in the next few days 

Excellent, many thanks

Folksriker

Hello, I was wondering if anyone could help me interpret the title register for a property I am in the process of purchasing

The property was advertised as freehold and the current owner does not pay any ground rent. However, the title register has the following characteristics:

- Section A gives particulars of a lease, beginning in the 1960s, lasting over 900 years and with ground rent fixed at £2 and 5 shillings. The parties appear to be names of private individuals with no further details, are these the people who set up the lease in the 1960s? What happens if they are dead or simply stopped caring about their £2 a year? Could their next of kin come for the back rent? How does the conversion from "old money" work?

- Section B refers to the title as "good leasehold" registered to the current owner. There are no details as to the current freeholder. My limited research has led me to believe means this now absent Freeholder might not even have had the right to grant the lease regardless. What sort of potential problems could this cause, could this cause issues with conveyancing and my mortgage lender, and is it possible to get this issue rectified and purchase the freehold somehow?

Land_Registry

Folksriker said:

Hello, I was wondering if anyone could help me interpret the title register for a property I am in the process of purchasing

The property was advertised as freehold and the current owner does not pay any ground rent. However, the title register has the following characteristics:

- Section A gives particulars of a lease, beginning in the 1960s, lasting over 900 years and with ground rent fixed at £2 and 5 shillings. The parties appear to be names of private individuals with no further details, are these the people who set up the lease in the 1960s? What happens if they are dead or simply stopped caring about their £2 a year? Could their next of kin come for the back rent? How does the conversion from "old money" work?

- Section B refers to the title as "good leasehold" registered to the current owner. There are no details as to the current freeholder. My limited research has led me to believe means this now absent Freeholder might not even have had the right to grant the lease regardless. What sort of potential problems could this cause, could this cause issues with conveyancing and my mortgage lender, and is it possible to get this issue rectified and purchase the freehold somehow?

The title you are looking at is a leasehold one with a good leasehold class of title. If you think you are buying it freehold then best to ask the seller to provide the freehold title/evidence of ownership
The names will be the parties to the lease as stated at the time. Those details don’t change as the lease doesn’t change, just it’s ownership 
You simply don’t have enough detail to answer all your Qs so these should all be put to the seller for answers
For example good leasehold can be granted in a variety of circumstances such as they (the original grantor) didn’t have evidence of title to prove their freehold ownership at the time. 

As things stand it seems very likely that it will cause issues for the conveyancing and lender - the latter will also want the Qs answered if you are hoping to buy and mortgage as a freeholder. 

If the seller/you can identify and rectify the defect that caused a GL title to be granted and then register the freehold and determine the lease then it’s possible. But it reads as if you are a long way from that point 

DemeSon

Background

My father has gone into care and his property will need to be sold in the near future. The property and attached land is unregistered.  As compulsory registration is required, we want to do it sooner rather than later to avoid problems.

There are 8 registered  title plans and a Deed affecting the property boundaries.The western boundary is defined by 3 title documents . The physical western boundaries  (walls and fences) have been established since the mid 1980's when there was construction and a dispute. The last title change was 2007.   Including us, all 4 parties are in verbal agreement that the physical boundaries are the actual boundaries . One of the four parties is a local authority who will need to approve, justify and process any changes.

Problem

The 3  title plans on the western boundary do not reflect the  physical boundary. They also  do not align with each other or our title Deed.      

Question

Is there a process by which all title plans can be amended to reflect the established boundaries without doing transfers of land?   I understand why that might not be allowed for big plots of land but this is for title inconsistency not tax avoidance.   

 Is a way forward what needs to be done and who  needs to do it?  We have the compelling interest to get this done because it will be a problem for probate so it seems reasonable if we pay at least part of the costs but we dont know what to do.

Our options currently seem to be:-

We can attempt to register the land to the actual  physical boundary  but that will leave 4 title documents that are inconsistent. Presumably the point of land registration is to avoid that (and the registration might be rejected on that basis).

We can go through the process of adverse possession to correct documents everyone seems to agree are wrong but that seems time consuming, unnecessary and confrontational and still wont make all the documents consistent.

We can build a fence that attempts to reflects the documented boundary and register the land to that fence but that will pointlessly orphan tiny pieces of local authority and neigbouring land  they cant access and dont want. 

Any advice on a way forward appreciated. I do understand that if the land were registered we'd probably all just ignore this and carry on  but it isnt so here we are.

963147

Morning. Currently in the process of remortgaging which is involving a change of lender. For context - when we first purchased the property me and my partner set up a deed of trust due to differing contributions to the deposit. I've received this from the lender's solicitor regarding the restriction 

"We note that there is currently a restriction secured at Entry B:4 which relates to a Deed of Trust made between yourself and <partner> and a copy of this is also attached above.

Upon reviewing the RX1 form which was used to register this restriction, we note that this was registered as a standard Form M restriction - this means that this will negatively impact <new lender's> ability to overreach it in the event that they were to seek possession of the property under their power of sale due to any defaults in mortgage payments. This is not acceptable for us to proceed as this would be onerous to their security.

In order for us to move forward, we would require this restriction to be amended from the Form M at present to a standard Form B. We are unable to make this amendment ourselves due to this service being outside of the service level agreement which we have with <new lender>
You will, therefore, need to look at instructing your own solicitors to arrange the above and confirm for us once this has been finalised"

Not particularly sure what this all means with regards Form M, Form B. Can someone help?  
If this change were to be made does it need to be done via a solicitor or can it be done ourselves directly with land registry?

Thanks

Land_Registry

963147 said:

Morning. Currently in the process of remortgaging which is involving a change of lender. For context - when we first purchased the property me and my partner set up a deed of trust due to differing contributions to the deposit. I've received this from the lender's solicitor regarding the restriction 

"We note that there is currently a restriction secured at Entry B:4 which relates to a Deed of Trust made between yourself and <partner> and a copy of this is also attached above.

Upon reviewing the RX1 form which was used to register this restriction, we note that this was registered as a standard Form M restriction - this means that this will negatively impact <new lender's> ability to overreach it in the event that they were to seek possession of the property under their power of sale due to any defaults in mortgage payments. This is not acceptable for us to proceed as this would be onerous to their security.

In order for us to move forward, we would require this restriction to be amended from the Form M at present to a standard Form B. We are unable to make this amendment ourselves due to this service being outside of the service level agreement which we have with <new lender>
You will, therefore, need to look at instructing your own solicitors to arrange the above and confirm for us once this has been finalised"

Not particularly sure what this all means with regards Form M, Form B. Can someone help?  
If this change were to be made does it need to be done via a solicitor or can it be done ourselves directly with land registry?

Thanks

Form B and Form M are different types of restriction. So form as in their format (wording) 
I don’t think it can be a form M though as that relates to a shared ownership lease and not a Deed of Trust as suggested. I’d suggest clarifying matters 

You can apply to cancel (form RX3) or withdrawal (form RX4) depending on what type of restriction it is. And form RX1 can be used to apply for a new restriction if required. 

Our Practice Guide 24 explains more re Private Trusts and whilst you don’t have to use a solicitor it might be prudent to get some legal advice both re the trust, it’s protection on the register and your new mortgage 
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/private-trusts-of-land

Land_Registry

DemeSon said:

Background

My father has gone into care and his property will need to be sold in the near future. The property and attached land is unregistered.  As compulsory registration is required, we want to do it sooner rather than later to avoid problems.

There are 8 registered  title plans and a Deed affecting the property boundaries.The western boundary is defined by 3 title documents . The physical western boundaries  (walls and fences) have been established since the mid 1980's when there was construction and a dispute. The last title change was 2007.   Including us, all 4 parties are in verbal agreement that the physical boundaries are the actual boundaries . One of the four parties is a local authority who will need to approve, justify and process any changes.

Problem

The 3  title plans on the western boundary do not reflect the  physical boundary. They also  do not align with each other or our title Deed.      

Question

Is there a process by which all title plans can be amended to reflect the established boundaries without doing transfers of land?   I understand why that might not be allowed for big plots of land but this is for title inconsistency not tax avoidance.   

 Is a way forward what needs to be done and who  needs to do it?  We have the compelling interest to get this done because it will be a problem for probate so it seems reasonable if we pay at least part of the costs but we dont know what to do.

Our options currently seem to be:-

We can attempt to register the land to the actual  physical boundary  but that will leave 4 title documents that are inconsistent. Presumably the point of land registration is to avoid that (and the registration might be rejected on that basis).

We can go through the process of adverse possession to correct documents everyone seems to agree are wrong but that seems time consuming, unnecessary and confrontational and still wont make all the documents consistent.

We can build a fence that attempts to reflects the documented boundary and register the land to that fence but that will pointlessly orphan tiny pieces of local authority and neigbouring land  they cant access and dont want. 

Any advice on a way forward appreciated. I do understand that if the land were registered we'd probably all just ignore this and carry on  but it isnt so here we are.

We register the general boundaries so IF you are seeking to register land that is already registered and the ‘differences’ are significant then you will need to prove title to that ownership. 

Registration is based largely, but not solely, on the deeds/documents submitted. It isn’t simply shifted to match the physical features in place. 

So there is no specific process of the type you describe and the key is really deciding how you are going to prove title from the deeds/documents the owner has. And apply to register that land as a first registration. 

If the registration overlaps with adjoining titles then we may contact the registered owners to find a way forward or, if the deeds don’t support your application, limit the extent of your title as appropriate. 

If the latter happens you can consider making an application for adverse possession based on occupation/use of the land for example. 

I would strongly recommend that you seek legal advice/assistance re the deeds/documents you have and the best way forward. 

Our Practice Guides 1, 4, 5 and the supplements to 40 will help. But your starting point is the documentary evidence of title you have alongside the already registered information. What fits and what doesn’t and how to proceed is where that legal advice is crucial 
You don’t have to take the recommendation and you can apply to register yourself of course if you wish but we won’t consider the issues raised until an application is made 
https://www.gov.uk/topic/land-registration/practice-guides