Land Registry questions

eskimalita7

Hello LR
In our block of 4 flats, each flat has 25% share of freehold (so freehold is owned jointly by each leaseholder). There is no managing agent.
The original copy of the deeds from 1958 pertaining to my flat is lost. No copy at LR, no copy at any solicitor or mortgage company, or previous owner. I have exhausted these avenues back to the 1970s.
The other 3 flats have paper copies of their leases. No copies at LR.
I have been advised that a collective surrender and regrant is the only option to get a copy of my lease. The terms of the lease won’t change for the other 3 flats. I have offered to pay for independent legal advice for the freeholders. Some freeholders have taken advice from “a friend who is a lawyer” and don’t want to even want to entertain the idea of independent advice about a collective surrender and regrant, nevermind sign it.
I can’t sell my flat without a copy of the lease. I can’t seem to get through to the other flats that they wont lose out. I offered the legal advice at my cost from day 1.
Does the attached response confirm the LR have done everything possible to look in their archives? Is there anything else I can do? I need to sell at some point in the next few months to move for my son’s secondary school (plus we’ve outgrown the flat - we have 3 kids). I have had a buyer in place since January, who are now probably going to pull out. I need to do something to get a lease before I put it back on the market.

In the email below, the reference to the body of another deed is the Deed of Extension from 1999. I contacted the solicitor who did this and in their archives they found a copy of the lease for all flats except mine.
thanks for your help.

Land_Registry

eskimalita7 said:

Hello LR
In our block of 4 flats, each flat has 25% share of freehold (so freehold is owned jointly by each leaseholder). There is no managing agent.
The original copy of the deeds from 1958 pertaining to my flat is lost. No copy at LR, no copy at any solicitor or mortgage company, or previous owner. I have exhausted these avenues back to the 1970s.
The other 3 flats have paper copies of their leases. No copies at LR.
I have been advised that a collective surrender and regrant is the only option to get a copy of my lease. The terms of the lease won’t change for the other 3 flats. I have offered to pay for independent legal advice for the freeholders. Some freeholders have taken advice from “a friend who is a lawyer” and don’t want to even want to entertain the idea of independent advice about a collective surrender and regrant, nevermind sign it.
I can’t sell my flat without a copy of the lease. I can’t seem to get through to the other flats that they wont lose out. I offered the legal advice at my cost from day 1.
Does the attached response confirm the LR have done everything possible to look in their archives? Is there anything else I can do? I need to sell at some point in the next few months to move for my son’s secondary school (plus we’ve outgrown the flat - we have 3 kids). I have had a buyer in place since January, who are now probably going to pull out. I need to do something to get a lease before I put it back on the market.

In the email below, the reference to the body of another deed is the Deed of Extension from 1999. I contacted the solicitor who did this and in their archives they found a copy of the lease for all flats except mine.
thanks for your help.

Yes - although we have many millions of copy deeds/documents we are not responsible for holding copies of leases. That responsibility lies with the lessor and lessee. 

We’ve checked for a copy but it is not there hence our reply. 

The only way forward is to create a new lease and to determine the old one if the lessor does not have a copy either. 

The advice they have been given suggests not to get independent legal advice which seems odd. I’m guessing you really mean the advice was not to grant a new lease and/or to try and offer an indemnity for your buyer although the latter may not be available (check with your solicitor) 
If they’ve been advised not to help/do anything then you may have to seek legal recourse but again check with your solicitor 
The irony is that if you are registered as one of 4 freeholders as and when they sell they are going to need you to execute a transfer of the freehold so it cuts both ways here albeit not for them currently 

Holly2002

Hello, 
I'm trying to purchase a 50% share in a shared ownership property and my solicitors have asked for some charges to be removed which the sellers solicitors are refusing to do before completion and this has been bouncing back and forth for some months.  My solicitors have said they can't advise me of the full nature of them and whether they could be an issue in a future sale.  There is another title reference for this property GR379644 but my solicitors have only asked for the charges to be removed from GR36619. Below is an extract.
 Please arrange for the removal of the entries relating to Estate Contracts at C1 to C5. We note from

the documents provided thus far that what had previously been unregistered land was transferred to

Cottsway Housing Association on 16/03/2012 and registered until title number GR366619 (the title

number referred to in our enquiry numbered 9). We assume therefore that these entries should be

cancelled. 
Can you please advise if these can be removed and if so how we proceed and timescales?
Thank you.

Land_Registry

Holly2002 said:

Hello, 
I'm trying to purchase a 50% share in a shared ownership property and my solicitors have asked for some charges to be removed which the sellers solicitors are refusing to do before completion and this has been bouncing back and forth for some months.  My solicitors have said they can't advise me of the full nature of them and whether they could be an issue in a future sale.  There is another title reference for this property GR379644 but my solicitors have only asked for the charges to be removed from GR36619. Below is an extract.
 Please arrange for the removal of the entries relating to Estate Contracts at C1 to C5. We note from

the documents provided thus far that what had previously been unregistered land was transferred to

Cottsway Housing Association on 16/03/2012 and registered until title number GR366619 (the title

number referred to in our enquiry numbered 9). We assume therefore that these entries should be

cancelled. 
Can you please advise if these can be removed and if so how we proceed and timescales?
Thank you.

You need to rely on your legal advice here. Nothing else. And we don’t provide legal advice. 

The entries refer as stated and if you are buying part of the title then your part is very likely to be impacted upon. 

The entries can be removed if they can prove that the protected interests are no longer applicable. They originate from Land Charges so an application to cancel them would be made to Land Charges and then a clear result shared with us as part of a separate application. 

So two stages with the second depending on the first one being achieved. Timescales likely to be several weeks but if stage 2 is reached that can be reduced by expediting the process
Key though is have the interests come to an end. I suspect only the freehold owner can establish that for you although both titles are affected  

laskoibence

MS563915

Good Afternoon, any updated on this please?

Land_Registry

laskoibence said:

MS563915

Good Afternoon, any updated on this please?

We had one application submitted in March which was completed on 7th June. Conveyancer then submitted a second application on 8th June so that one is now waiting to be considered. That probably won’t happen for several weeks based on current wait times. If there’s an urgency they need to request expedition 

hbanana

Good morning,

We are FTB currently in the process of buying a house from someone who is buying a shared ownership new build property. We were told back on 20th May from the estate agent that the application had been sent to Land Registry to register the house between the housing association and the seller. It's now been a month, we haven't progressed any further and the status is that it's held up with the Land Registry.

As the people on the other side of this purchase, it's getting increasingly frustrating as there is no end goal in sight and our original aims of completing before the stamp duty holiday seem unachievable now. Is there anything we can push to be done - can we ask the seller and their solicitor to expedite the application as it's holding up our purchase? Do we have to wait for the seller's new build to be fully registered before we can complete? If nothing changes, how much longer will we have to wait for this to go through?

Land_Registry

hbanana said:

Good morning,

We are FTB currently in the process of buying a house from someone who is buying a shared ownership new build property. We were told back on 20th May from the estate agent that the application had been sent to Land Registry to register the house between the housing association and the seller. It's now been a month, we haven't progressed any further and the status is that it's held up with the Land Registry.

As the people on the other side of this purchase, it's getting increasingly frustrating as there is no end goal in sight and our original aims of completing before the stamp duty holiday seem unachievable now. Is there anything we can push to be done - can we ask the seller and their solicitor to expedite the application as it's holding up our purchase? Do we have to wait for the seller's new build to be fully registered before we can complete? If nothing changes, how much longer will we have to wait for this to go through?

Yes re expedition. Probably have to wait before you complete but very much up to your lender/solicitor. And without expedition the wait could be several weeks if a transfer of whole or several months if of part. 

If they don’t request expedition, which is available for exactly this scenario, then it can be frustrating for some time 

almac2021

Hi
further to the discussions on the previous page, has there been any movement on CU103456? The solicitors are just saying they’re waiting still?
thanks

sharhar

Hi, need some advise.

Backstory:

I initially booked a new build with help to buy back in 2019 after finding a buyer for my previous flat. The buyer pulled out and sale of the flat fell through. The builder agreed to part exchange the flat for the house. As part of this price was renegotiated and I had to cancel my help to buy application as the builder mentioned PX and H2B cannot be used together.

Even during contract signing stage, there were lot of mixups - we were asked to sign H2B equity deed, contract had old price etc. I brought this to the attention of my solicitor and they were fixed.

Issues

Purchase of the new build house was completed in September 2019 and I received the title details in post in March 2020. As soon as I received I had a look with my little understanding of what it meant. The purchase price was wrong. Old price was mentioned and not the renegotiated price. I raised it with the solicitors immediately. It has been 15 months since i first raised but the title hasn't been updated. The land registry sold prices seems to have been updated and shows the correct price.

As I'm close to 2 years since completion, my initial mortgage deal is expiring and I got a new deal from a new lender. The solicitor acting on behalf of new lender mentioned that there is a Help2buy (Homes and communities agency) charge on the title. I should have checked this initially but i didnt even understand anything else in the title. I know ignorance is not a defence but I never knew about all these. I even have an email from Help to buy agent that my help2buy application was cancelled.

I have again raised this as a complaint with my solicitors who dealt with it in 2019. Now I have to wait for them to come back.

My question, how easy/difficult is to get the Help2buy charge removed from the title and how long it will take. My mortgage deal will expire end of September. Will this affect my new mortgage deal as the lender would expect the full title guarantee.