Land Registry questions

Saver83

@Land_Registry
My husband and I are selling our Shared Ownership flat and buying a New Build house with Help to Buy. We must complete by August 11th because with Shared Ownership you must sell at the current market value and that's when our valuation runs out. We could sell for less but we would have to take the full brunt of any shortfall in value (as opposed to sharing it with the housing association). We had the property valued mid Feb, found a buyer and searched for a property that we could afford based on the equity we would receive from the sale, our savings and how much we could lend. We had our offer accepted but then proceedings were put on hold due to lockdown. Our buyer was made furlough and when restrictions were lifted, couldn't get a mortgage. We immediately found another buyer but they found they could no longer get a mortgage either because they only had a 10% deposit, another buyer came forward but then they decided to drop their offer which we could not accept because it would not give us enough equity to purchase our new build. We were in the process of retracting our offer as we had no buyer but then another buyer came through at the last minute who had a much larger deposit and whom were happy to move quickly and meet our deadline. Everything seemed to be going well but after the enquiries came back from the buyer's solicitors this week, it was discovered that the lease extension on our flat has not been registered with the Land Registry. I am using the same solicitors I used to purchase the  flat 5 years ago. The lease was running low but was advertised as being sold with a long lease so I purchased it on the condition that it would be sold with the extension. The person who dealt with our case no longer works at the company. The lease extension was signed and paid for by the previous owners on the day we completed. At the time, I was told by my solicitors that the extension had been carried out and there was nothing further we needed to do or worry about. As far as I was concerned, everything had been dealt with. They're now saying that the previous owner's solicitors should have registered it but there is nothing in the paperwork to suggest this was agreed by them. My solicitors obtained a copy of the extension and have applied for the registration to be expedited by the Land Registry. This was granted yesterday but we have no idea how long this will take and if any requisitions will be raised. We are sick with worry because if we don't complete by August 11th, we will have to get the property valued again. It has already been extended and if extended again, there's a chance that due to Covid-19 the value may have dropped and we will no longer have enough equity to purchase the New Build. We have spent thousands in costs so far, not to mention the hours and hours of time filling in applications, documents and on the phone to various parties.

Is there anything more we can do to resolve this? We're currently living in small, cramped conditions on the first floor with no lift (which is not ideal with having a toddler and 4 month old) so we are desperate to move and it would be devastating for both sales to fall through as a result. Our buyer will also lose out financially. To add salt to the wound, we thought we had negotiated a brilliant deal of offering to pay the full asking price on the New Build, on condition that the developers pay the stamp duty (not knowing that the government would temporarily scrap it anyway!). If anyone could advise us we would be most grateful. Many thanks

Land_Registry

JeffMason said:

Ah. This is where I got confused. I factored in posting to you but not posting back. You said a couple of days so I thought that was to get it via email. Not emailing OCs is confusing as the OC2 form does say "if you have supplied an email address in panel 5, then, unless you complete the box below, any official copy will be issued electronically to that address". I didn't put my address below as I preferred an emailed copy for speed purposes. The form really should be re-written to be less confusing.

Will I get details of why one of the two isn't available? And if you don't have a copy - what can I do to get hold of one? If you don't have it then I'm not sure who else would..?

If you look at the explanatory note on the form it explains why the email option is included but not currently available. 

If you apply for a copy and we don’t have one then that would be explained 
If we don’t have a copy then it’s a matter of your own detective work with involved/affected parties 

Land_Registry

Saver83 said:

Is there anything more we can do to resolve this? We're currently living in small, cramped conditions on the first floor with no lift (which is not ideal with having a toddler and 4 month old) so we are desperate to move and it would be devastating for both sales to fall through as a result. Our buyer will also lose out financially. To add salt to the wound, we thought we had negotiated a brilliant deal of offering to pay the full asking price on the New Build, on condition that the developers pay the stamp duty (not knowing that the government would temporarily scrap it anyway!). If anyone could advise us we would be most grateful. Many thanks

You need to ask your solicitor to make a request to expedite the application 

JeffMason

Land_Registry said:

JeffMason said:

Ah. This is where I got confused. I factored in posting to you but not posting back. You said a couple of days so I thought that was to get it via email. Not emailing OCs is confusing as the OC2 form does say "if you have supplied an email address in panel 5, then, unless you complete the box below, any official copy will be issued electronically to that address". I didn't put my address below as I preferred an emailed copy for speed purposes. The form really should be re-written to be less confusing.

Will I get details of why one of the two isn't available? And if you don't have a copy - what can I do to get hold of one? If you don't have it then I'm not sure who else would..?

If you look at the explanatory note on the form it explains why the email option is included but not currently available. 

If you apply for a copy and we don’t have one then that would be explained 
If we don’t have a copy then it’s a matter of your own detective work with involved/affected parties 

@Land_Registry   I got a letter this morning explaining why they couldn't send a copy and that they do have a copy of a lease with a different date. All very helpful. It's just the cheque arriving first and without explanation that confused me I think.

Follow up question - I filled in the OC2 form with the title details from the freehold and the 'title number' is different. I can see that they have used the title number from the leasehold as a reference, so should I be using the leasehold title number when wanting a copy of the lease, or does either work? 

This was the problem I think. I took the date of the lease from the freehold title document, and that is not the most recent lease so I now need to apply again with a different date listed. 

Thanks.

Land_Registry

JeffMason said:

@Land_Registry   I got a letter this morning explaining why they couldn't send a copy and that they do have a copy of a lease with a different date. All very helpful. It's just the cheque arriving first and without explanation that confused me I think.

Follow up question - I filled in the OC2 form with the title details from the freehold and the 'title number' is different. I can see that they have used the title number from the leasehold as a reference, so should I be using the leasehold title number when wanting a copy of the lease, or does either work? 

This was the problem I think. I took the date of the lease from the freehold title document, and that is not the most recent lease so I now need to apply again with a different date listed. 

Thanks.

It all depends on which register you are looking at and then how an entry refers to the deed
A registered lease will have its own register and that is what you should use. If it simply refers to the lease then it would be filed under the register’s title number. If we have a copy. 

If it’s referred to as being filed under another title number then you’d list that title number on the OC2 next to Lease, date and number of copies wanted 

JeffMason

Land_Registry said:

JeffMason said:

@Land_Registry   I got a letter this morning explaining why they couldn't send a copy and that they do have a copy of a lease with a different date. All very helpful. It's just the cheque arriving first and without explanation that confused me I think.

Follow up question - I filled in the OC2 form with the title details from the freehold and the 'title number' is different. I can see that they have used the title number from the leasehold as a reference, so should I be using the leasehold title number when wanting a copy of the lease, or does either work? 

This was the problem I think. I took the date of the lease from the freehold title document, and that is not the most recent lease so I now need to apply again with a different date listed. 

Thanks.

It all depends on which register you are looking at and then how an entry refers to the deed
A registered lease will have its own register and that is what you should use. If it simply refers to the lease then it would be filed under the register’s title number. If we have a copy. 

If it’s referred to as being filed under another title number then you’d list that title number on the OC2 next to Lease, date and number of copies wanted 

@Land_Registry  It's a house split into two flats - I have the register for the freehold and then two seperate documents for the lease of each of the flats - each with a different title number. Do I use the number from the lease documents then and ignore the freehold number? Or do I put the freehold number in section 2 and then leasehold number in section 7?

I put the freehold title number in both previously, not realising they were different, and they still seemed to find it. It was the incorrect date of the lease (I'd added the date the freehold started) that caused the confusion I think. 

Land_Registry

@Land_Registry  It's a house split into two flats - I have the register for the freehold and then two seperate documents for the lease of each of the flats - each with a different title number. Do I use the number from the lease documents then and ignore the freehold number? Or do I put the freehold number in section 2 and then leasehold number in section 7?

I put the freehold title number in both previously, not realising they were different, and they still seemed to find it. It was the incorrect date of the lease (I'd added the date the freehold started) that caused the confusion I think. 

If the lease is registered under its own title number then use that title number in panel 2 on form OC2
If there is no reference on the register to it being filed under a different title number then add that to the third column for panel 7 
However if there’s a Note that states a copy is filed under a specific title number then use that in panel 7 instead 

JeffMason

Land_Registry said:

@Land_Registry  It's a house split into two flats - I have the register for the freehold and then two seperate documents for the lease of each of the flats - each with a different title number. Do I use the number from the lease documents then and ignore the freehold number? Or do I put the freehold number in section 2 and then leasehold number in section 7?

I put the freehold title number in both previously, not realising they were different, and they still seemed to find it. It was the incorrect date of the lease (I'd added the date the freehold started) that caused the confusion I think. 

If the lease is registered under its own title number then use that title number in panel 2 on form OC2
If there is no reference on the register to it being filed under a different title number then add that to the third column for panel 7 
However if there’s a Note that states a copy is filed under a specific title number then use that in panel 7 instead 

@Land_Registry   I'm still a little confused...
To clarify: The freehold document has it's own title number and under "schedule of notices of leases" mentions "lessee's title" for both flats. Then each flat has it's own document with title numbers that match those listed on the freehold document.

So if I want the lease from one of the flats, do I put the title number from that flat's document (that is also listed under "lessee's title" in the freehold document) in both section 2 and 7? 

Land_Registry

JeffMason said:

@Land_Registry   I'm still a little confused...
To clarify: The freehold document has it's own title number and under "schedule of notices of leases" mentions "lessee's title" for both flats. Then each flat has it's own document with title numbers that match those listed on the freehold document.

So if I want the lease from one of the flats, do I put the title number from that flat's document (that is also listed under "lessee's title" in the freehold document) in both section 2 and 7? 

You use the leasehold title register as the basis of any application for a copy of that lease. 

So use that title number in panels 2 and 7 
You would only use a different title number in panel 7 IF the register includes a Note saying that a copy of the lease is filed under xxxx.  IF it doesn’t then it should be filed under its own title number 

JeffMason

Land_Registry said:

JeffMason said:

@Land_Registry   I'm still a little confused...
To clarify: The freehold document has it's own title number and under "schedule of notices of leases" mentions "lessee's title" for both flats. Then each flat has it's own document with title numbers that match those listed on the freehold document.

So if I want the lease from one of the flats, do I put the title number from that flat's document (that is also listed under "lessee's title" in the freehold document) in both section 2 and 7? 

You use the leasehold title register as the basis of any application for a copy of that lease. 

So use that title number in panels 2 and 7 
You would only use a different title number in panel 7 IF the register includes a Note saying that a copy of the lease is filed under xxxx.  IF it doesn’t then it should be filed under its own title number 

The second one has come back as cannot be located now too. I again included the freehold title number. It's been almost two weeks since I started this process and it would be so much easier if it could be done online and any errors queried via email. I would have then realised the problem and been able to update the information and their would have been no need to send a refund cheque. There seems to be a lot of old fashioned paperwork generated when there doesn't need to be anymore.

I've hopefully got it correct now, and will send new versions of the OC2 forms and new cheques...