Public Sector Pay Restraint Ending?

HornetSaver

I love how, whenever the question of skills comes up, those on the right suddenly turn into communists. "Low skilled" is not some monolithic block.

The most important attribute in a firefighter (aside from the necessary level of fitness) is that they will do what needs to be done whether it's in the contract or not. The most important attribute in a nurse is that they make the people being cared for feel as though they're in good hands. The most important attribute in a police officer is common sense.

People with those attributes generally gravitate towards those professions in greater proportions than those who do not, all else being equal. But the "do what needs to be done" mentality is less likely to be held by someone if it's not shared by those around and above them. The "make the patient feel safe and cared for" attribute is less likely to be displayed in as sincere a way by those who feel like a number.

And as for common sense. Well, if you are going down the path of austerity and are anticipating a climate in which there will be a period of economic pain (whether of your making or not), then common sense suggests that policing is the single service you should be most wary of making cuts to, over and above even the likes of education and health.

GreatApe

It is too toxic a topic, the left will beat the right over the head with this now that the foolish likes of Boris is shooting his own parties foot to further his own interests. Plus clearly there are spades of ignorance in the media and the public about the issue

Just set the average public sector wage to that of the average private sector wage and be done with it

Pay cap can be justified until the +3% advantage dissipates and thereafter the two can move in tandem.

Tromking

GreatApe wrote: »

Just set the average public sector wage to that of the average private sector wage and be done with it.

Nope, won't work.
You pay enough to get vital services done, all other solutions that don't address that simple truth are doomed to fail.

Windofchange

economic wrote: »

you get pay caps in private sector too - i had no pay rise for a good 4 years. it all depends on the company you work for. that doesnt mean wages are not set by supply and demand. if there really was a shortage of nurses then wages will rise to attract nurses.

i am not going to read something from the bbc and believe its true. i have learnt that reading articles from the media should not always be believed so i remain skeptical unless i see real hard evidence. that bbc article is just he said this she said this so who do i even believe??? its just a waste of time.

So basically you won't answer the questions. I put straight after the BBC link that it was based on the Royal College of Nursing. But no, everything is biased, the news is wrong, your view on the world is absolute. What real hard evidence do you want? You've not even bothered clicking the link - it's a video, not article. :wall:

fatbeetle

economic wrote: »

i was in the banking industry for a number of years earning about 100k.

LOL!! You're functionally illiterate, and you expect us to believe that bullshine?

scd3scd4

economic wrote: »

public sector its just that - public service to the population. its private sector workers whopay public sector wages. of course i dont want my tax money wasted and to overpay someone for their services. wages are set by supply and demand. nurses get paid what they do - lets face it its a very low skill work plus there are a lot of immigrants who do this role. why should they get paid more because its just?

Really. Low skilled a? My daughter is a senior paediatric staff nurse in a large London hospital with an honours degree. Clearly you have not visited any for a while thank God. Who do you think runs these wards most of the time? Sometimes you can not cure....stupid!


Supply and demand? Have you just woke up. They are leaving in the hundreds. Wards are under staffed and they are paying over the odds for agency workers. How about you face that!

Windofchange

GreatApe wrote: »

What is your solution?

Pay them more? How much more? Is it fair to expand the pay gap between the public sector further from the private sector. It is already 3% to the advantage of the public sector, plus they probably have better job security too.

Lets assume you do want to pay them more, the actual question is do you want to do that from

higher taxes (which ones and what would the impact be)
more borrowing
divert money from elsewhere (where and what would the impact be)

just saying there is a nurse shortage is like crying wont someone think of the children!!!

This is about a staff shortage, not a pay rise for everyone. I mentioned the cap in response to the assertion that supply and demand is setting the wage of NHS workers. It isn't. I don't know where I have said give everyone a pay rise?

In 2015 MP's enjoyed a 10% pay rise, and have this year given themselves another grand ontop for good measure. Despite there being no magic money tree, Theresa May has found £1.5 billion to keep her job. We found however many billions to rescue the banks in 2008. When it comes to emergency services however, forget it.

You can't compare private and public sector. If a private hospital for instance has no patients, it will close. That is supply and demand - your supply (price) is too high, we can't pay, there is no demand. If a NHS trust has no or too many patients, it can't close. It has to be there. The population is exploding secondary to immigration, people are living longer and needing more medical treatment, yet we haven't invested in the extra capacity that is needed. Take it from someone who is now on their 12th straight day of work - the NHS is on its knees.

As for your last sentence comparing a nursing shortage to won't someone think of the children - only you and your sidekick seem to understand what the heck you are on about.

Windofchange

fatbeetle wrote: »

LOL!! You're functionally illiterate, and you expect us to believe that bullshine?

You know what, the more this tool posts the more I come to the conclusion that there is no way someone this ignorant earned that kind of money. The internet is a wonderful place - you can be whoever you want, superstar investment banker retired in his 30's - or is it semi-retired, he can't make up his mind.

Anyway, I've got to go to work and hang out those thick nurses. I do hope they were clever enough to tie their shoe laces this morning.

Thrugelmir

Windofchange wrote: »

1) How is supply and demand setting public sector pay with a 1% per annum pay cap?
2) How is it that public sector workers pay nothing into society and it's all supported by the private sector?
3) Expand on the quoted section above where you said there is no shortage of nurses, and if there was we'd have heard about it. Don't believe the news etc.

You are clueless.

Nurses have the luxury of a National Pay Scale. Perhaps that needs addressing. Someone working in Lincoln has a far better standard of living than say someone in Reigate. As relatively the cost of living is vastly different. Nor is it just a question of pay. Certain specialities struggle to attract applicants at all for some jobs, i.e. paediatrics. There's peoples choice nothing more.

GunJack

economic wrote: »

you get pay caps in private sector too - i had no pay rise for a good 4 years. it all depends on the company you work for. that doesnt mean wages are not set by supply and demand. if there really was a shortage of nurses then wages will rise to attract nurses.

i am not going to read something from the bbc and believe its true. i have learnt that reading articles from the media should not always be believed so i remain skeptical unless i see real hard evidence. that bbc article is just he said this she said this so who do i even believe??? its just a waste of time.

There's a hell of a difference between not having a rise when you're already on circa 4x median wage and when you're on £22k....you just don't live in the real world.....