Public Sector Pay Restraint Ending?

Mistermeaner

Red-Squirrel wrote: »

Problem is, there's not really any way to make much money from A&E, but we do kind of need them unless you're ok with just letting people die unnecessarily...

One example only ; and who said let people die - silly point to try and score

If single examples are the way to argue I give you private hospitals and private schools

Backbiter

Mistermeaner wrote: »

Silly argument - you don't understand pfi ; this was about using private capital

I fully understand PFI. I work in the public sector and am well aware of the rules preventing local councils borrowing ( at historically low interest rates) to finance major building projects.
The private sector financed the much needed building projects (schools, hospitals). They did so at terms that were extremely detrimental to the public purse, but have benefited shareholders enormously.
You claimed above that if we let "the private sector address the need", " the tax payer saves money".
That just isn't the case.

Thrugelmir

Herzlos wrote: »

I've used private health services in the UK and the US, and both were truly eye wateringly expensive (but at least I wasn't paying).

A reality check perhaps as to how much it actually costs. A friend of mine did 2 years for the Red Cross in Afghanistan as a childrens Doctor. They said that a plastic surgeon regularly flew in from New York for a couple of weeks at a time. He performed restorative work on children injured in bomb explosions. His view was that if people were daft enough to pay large sums for nip and tuck jobs, and enlarged boobs. That he would repay society as a whole by giving something back for free. Nothing is ever what it might seem.

Mistermeaner

Backbiter wrote: »

I fully understand PFI. I work in the public sector and am well aware of the rules preventing local councils borrowing ( at historically low interest rates) to finance major building projects.
The private sector financed the much needed building projects (schools, hospitals). They did so at terms that were extremely detrimental to the public purse, but have benefited shareholders enormously.
You claimed above that if we let "the private sector address the need", " the tax payer saves money".
That just isn't the case.

You're not wrong about pfi being c appy but your conflating two separate things

Pfi is about financing of capex , not revenue (operational) expenditure which is where wages are paid from

Backbiter

Mistermeaner wrote: »

You're not wrong about pfi being c appy but your conflating two separate things

Pfi is about financing of capex , not revenue (operational) expenditure which is where wages are paid from

That's correct, but my point is that viewing the private sector as a way of getting better value is not true, based on the way the taxpayer has been and is being fleeced by PFI.

Mistermeaner

Then you are misunderstanding PFI as per my original point

PFI is not the private sector providing services

Its conflating two separate things

Windofchange

Anyone watching (Watched) Question time now (Thursday night). Debate on public sector pay. Find myself agreeing with a lot of what is being said. Caroline Lucas - hadn't really heard much from her but she makes a lot of sense.

Wasn't Great Ape saying a little while back Nursing crisis, what nursing crisis? If there was one we'd hear about it. Oh. Here we are. The public sector is a flipping mess and we can't "fill nurses and teachers jobs"

economic

public sector its just that - public service to the population. its private sector workers whopay public sector wages. of course i dont want my tax money wasted and to overpay someone for their services. wages are set by supply and demand. nurses get paid what they do - lets face it its a very low skill work plus there are a lot of immigrants who do this role. why should they get paid more because its just?

GreatApe

Windofchange wrote: »

Anyone watching (Watched) Question time now (Thursday night). Debate on public sector pay. Find myself agreeing with a lot of what is being said. Caroline Lucas - hadn't really heard much from her but she makes a lot of sense.

Wasn't Great Ape saying a little while back Nursing crisis, what nursing crisis? If there was one we'd hear about it. Oh. Here we are. The public sector is a flipping mess and we can't "fill nurses and teachers jobs"

I dont think I ever said that,

I know my local GP and hospital is quite good, I go maybe a dozen times a year to take my mother for various appointments and tests for a chronic condition. I have not had any bad experiences myself with either the GP or the hospital. I am not using that as evidence for things being perfect but it is sufficient for me to doubt claims of 'a flipping mess'.

As for nurses and teachers, what do you think the problem is? Just pay is too low so not interesting for work seekers? Maybe, but I know one teacher who is leaving this term to take a job that in all likelihood will pay about 2/3rds as much. I also know a chap that went from industry to teaching and then back to industry a couple of years later just did not take to it. My guess is teaching has a high turnover rate. In fact my guess is almost every sector has a high turnover rate and thus you can find thousands of individuals stories of people leaving sector X whatever X might be.

In fact on the same theme could we not argue that the fast food sector is in a mess? So many people leave and there are always vacancies needing filling especially with good quality staff. What is the solution to the fast food workers? Is it comparable with what happens with nursing and nurses?

Windofchange

economic wrote: »

public sector its just that - public service to the population. its private sector workers whopay public sector wages. of course i dont want my tax money wasted and to overpay someone for their services. wages are set by supply and demand. nurses get paid what they do - lets face it its a very low skill work plus there are a lot of immigrants who do this role. why should they get paid more because its just?

So I as a public sector worker pay no tax? I don't lose 20% and then 40% of my pay packet to taxes that subsidise things within the UK economy?

You don't know what you are talking about as per usual. Public sector pay isn't set by supply and demand. Are you blind? 40,000 nursing posts unfilled at the moment (BBC via Royal College of Nursing)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-39913481/nhs-nursing-up-to-40000-posts-unfilled

Public sector pay is set by the government who have capped it at 1% for the past 7 years.

As for very low skill, again you are talking out of your !!!!. You are absolutely clueless. You think that all nurses do is wipe bottoms and serve lunch? Yet another post from yourself proving how narrow minded ignorant and selfish you are.