Public Sector Pay Restraint Ending?

Tromking

michaels wrote: »

I thought this thread was about public sector pay. That public sector pay is 3% higher than same qualifications private sector pay excluding a pension worth about 10k pa more than most private sector workers get would seem to be relevant?

So why is working in the public sector becoming less popular?
If the remuneration in the public sector is so much better, why the retention issues?
What does the government do, does it say as you do, that in the big scheme of things that the pay is still generous or does
it do something like up the pay?

Tromking

Thrugelmir wrote: »

Forms part of the employees remuneration package. Ultimately costs the taxpayer a lot of money. The higher the basic pay. The higher the pension liability in the years to come. Does nothing to solve the UK's budget deficit.

That's only one part of the conundrum, what do you do to solve the need to recruit and retain staff to carry out vital tasks in the public services?

BobQ

vivatifosi wrote: »

Part of the issue with public sector pay awards is that they are national, and many schemes for local weighting etc have been abandoned. A reasonable wage in Sunderland or Wolverhampton is not the same as one in Surrey, Herts or London due to housing costs. This division has got even wider at the same time as public sector pay restraint.

The problem now is that we have a government that doesn't have a magic money tree, but neither do their workers.

Not sure this is entirely true. There is regional variation from as low as £9 to as much as £14 and hour. So there maybe national scales but there is scope to set pay at different scale points.

Regional pay may not exist formally but I suspect the only national scales are where you have staff employed at the national level. Many public servants gave different local employers (like Councils) or are employed by agencies of NDPBs.

BobQ

Mistermeaner wrote: »

if the pay is so bad why on earth does anyone want to work there?

Why don;t these highly skilled professional people get a job with the salary and conditions they deserve somewhere else?

A fair point. I have seen many parts of the public sector as a contractor and I would say that there are many reasons:

some people choose the public sector because they want a better work-life balance
some have limited choice in their location (more local public sector jobs than private sector)
some are too close to retirement and realise that moving job is likely to be difficult (age discrimination still happens)
some are lucky enough to find their jobs rewarding in a non-financial sense.
some like the fact that the public sector is more inclusive than some private sector employers, more likely to allow part time working, more likely to obey employment law on Equality
some see the pension as a reasonable compensation for lower pay
some just do not appreciate that the private sector has a lot to offer them, particularly larger employers

but some do leave, typically they are younger and more able and have taken advantage of good training or professional accreditation or gained very marketable skills or relevant experience.

Matt_L

BobQ wrote: »

A fair point. I have seen many parts of the public sector as a contractor and I would say that there are many reasons:

some people choose the public sector because they want a better work-life balance
some have limited choice in their location (more local public sector jobs than private sector)
some are too close to retirement and realise that moving job is likely to be difficult (age discrimination still happens)
some are lucky enough to find their jobs rewarding in a non-financial sense.
some like the fact that the public sector is more inclusive than some private sector employers, more likely to allow part time working, more likely to obey employment law on Equality
some see the pension as a reasonable compensation for lower pay
some just do not appreciate that the private sector has a lot to offer them, particularly larger employers

but some do leave, typically they are younger and more able and have taken advantage of good training or professional accreditation or gained very marketable skills or relevant experience.

Think you've just given 8 good reason why for NOW those in the public sector should be content with a 1% pay rise...

BobQ

Matt_L wrote: »

Think you've just given 8 good reason why for NOW those in the public sector should be content with a 1% pay rise...

Maybe, but the point is that it is no longer seen as a sensible career path. People are leaving due to pay. The pension is a benefit, but many younger people would rather have the money to increase their life style, much like many in the private sector. So people (well those under 40) can look forward to a retirement at 70+ reliant on a paltry income in a society that sees no need to bother about the elderly.

fatbeetle

Tromking wrote: »

So why is working in the public sector becoming less popular?
If the remuneration in the public sector is so much better, why the retention issues?

One reason, I, and many other quit, is the hopeless and ineffectual management of these services.

There has long been a tradition of promoting incompetent clinical staff to a level where they become very incompetent middle managers.

At least they're trained to be clinicians.

Windofchange

vivatifosi wrote: »

Part of the issue with public sector pay awards is that they are national, and many schemes for local weighting etc have been abandoned. A reasonable wage in Sunderland or Wolverhampton is not the same as one in Surrey, Herts or London due to housing costs. This division has got even wider at the same time as public sector pay restraint.

The problem now is that we have a government that doesn't have a magic money tree, but neither do their workers.

In the NHS we get a London weighting - 20% of basic for inner London, 15% for outer, 5% for suburbs.

Tromking

BobQ wrote: »

Maybe, but the point is that it is no longer seen as a sensible career path. People are leaving due to pay.......

A point that seems to be lost or wantonly ignored by many on here.
There are still undoubtedly positives to a career in public service but the negatives are now stacking up and affecting delivery.
Government has a duty to sort out the issues.
Cue another poster with fatuous comments about the deficit and silly irrelevant comparisons the private sector.

Tromking

fatbeetle wrote: »

One reason, I, and many other quit, is the hopeless and ineffectual management of these services.
There has long been a tradition of promoting incompetent clinical staff to a level where they become very incompetent middle managers.

I think I'm on a journey to that sort of decision myself.
Promotion in my job used to be an almost tortuous process, that involved exams and genuine talent backed up by 'time served' experience. Now it's based on the ability to network and not a lot else.
I'm currently bossed by people with a couple of years in, on new terms and conditions and consequently despite being two rungs further up the promotion ladder, they're still earning less than me.