Motor Ombudsman Advice

sambobo

it's just not quite as solidly attached as it should be.

I agree and this is at least causing the Clutch slippage problems and I think possibly other problems with the AC.

“

the clutch and the compressor and the alternator are connected to a "single point of failure" - in this case the DMF. therefore Related.
”Different halves. And, remember, it's the flywheel being turned by the engine, not vice-versa.

I'm fairly certain that its widely known that the DMF maintains a more consistent rotational velocity on the crankshaft. are you saying that the two halves are somehow isolated from each other? I know there is some damping of the torque from the springs but this doesn't mean they are isolated.

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Batteries get their charge from the ions produced by chemicals in the battery.
”That's what stores the charge. It doesn't create it.

consider a phone battery, there are no alternators in the circuit. and yet the battery still produces a charge to keep your phone on. How do you explain that? i know that phone batteries use differnt chemicals to car batteries already.

“
Im suggesting that perhaps the AC clutch requires more like a good 14 volts to operate rather than just 12.7
”No. As with everything, it's a nominal 12v, but requires very little current.

Actually this is a good suggestion - I was hypothesising about this and I cant see any evidence on the web what the minimum current/voltage is for a clutch coil. Therefore i may be wrong. As I said before. having said that. I would like to see you start your car if you had less than 12.1V available.

“
but its perhaps equally likely that the AC compressor is not working because of the flywheel not working, causing the Alternator and Compressor to receive uneven rotations through drive belts.
”You are ignoring them being driven by different ends of the crankshaft.

Why does being at a different part of the crankshaft make any difference? is one end of the shaft isolated form the other?

“

High ambient temperature does not produce more refrigerant.
”I didn't say it did. Boyle's law, remember?

I dont follow how boyles law applies to this scenario, care to elaborate on how the?

you said

A far more likely reason for the compressor clutch not to be operating is that it's interlinked with the gas pressure, preventing a depressurised system from operating, because the lubricant for the compressor is suspended within the refrigerant. If the pressure is borderline, then it's entirely possible that the pressure increases in higher ambient temperatures, leading the switch to allow the compressor to operate.

this would make sense if it worked on warmer days and didnt work on cooler days but in fact it seemed to work intermittently all of the time but more noticable to humans when it is hot outside.

AdrianC

sambobo wrote: »

I agree and this is at least causing the Clutch slippage problems

No, clutch slip is separate. DMF failure is usually just a rattle.

I'm fairly certain that its widely known that the DMF maintains a more consistent rotational velocity on the crankshaft.

It's difficult to have a "more consistent rotational velocity" than being firmly bolted to something.

are you saying that the two halves are somehow isolated from each other?

That's the entire job of a DMF.

consider a phone battery, there are no alternators in the circuit. and yet the battery still produces a charge to keep your phone on. How do you explain that? i know that phone batteries use differnt chemicals to car batteries already.

I dunno about you, but I tend to recharge my phone by plugging it into the mains.

sambobo

“
I agree and this is at least causing the Clutch slippage problems
Originally posted by sambobo
”No, clutch slip is separate. DMF failure is usually just a rattle.

you are wrong. clutch slip has been caused by Flywheel failure, its a common symptom of a common vw problem.

“
I'm fairly certain that its widely known that the DMF maintains a more consistent rotational velocity on the crankshaft.
”It's difficult to have a "more consistent rotational velocity" than being firmly bolted to something.

you dont seem to have grasped the concept of momentum and mass, hence dual MASS flywheel. Note flywheel has further important job in the 3 cylinder bluemotion 1.4 tdi which has VVT or similar. and in towns is start stop engine so causes extra wear on the flywheel.

“

are you saying that the two halves are somehow isolated from each other?
”That's the entire job of a DMF.

They will isolate torque from the engine but the flywheel is not isolated from the crank is it, its bolted on. and its not isolated from the clutch is it? and when the bearings or springs break there is no longer torque isolation hence the problems encountered on both sides.

“
consider a phone battery, there are no alternators in the circuit. and yet the battery still produces a charge to keep your phone on. How do you explain that? i know that phone batteries use differnt chemicals to car batteries already.
”I dunno about you, but I tend to recharge my phone by plugging it into the mains.

welcome to the 21st century, you dont have to plug your brick into a wall to make a phone call now because bateries are capable of producing a charge.:T you recharge the chemicals in the battery when you plug it into the wall/or alternator obviously. In a similar way, you dont need an alternator in order to start the car or open the door solenoids and it will provide enough charge to keeps lights and the radio for some time.

AdrianC

sambobo wrote: »

you dont seem to have grasped the concept of momentum and mass, hence dual MASS flywheel.

There are two rotating masses. They rotate in sync, bar a very small amount of damped movement between them. They cannot rotate independently of each other.

consider a phone battery, there are no alternators in the circuit. and yet the battery still produces a charge to keep your phone on. How do you explain that?

You're getting confused with alkaline (etc) batteries. Rechargeable batteries (whether nickel-cadmium, lithium-ion or lead-acid) do not "produce" charge. They store charge, no more than that. The charge comes from power stations to your phone via the mains, and from the alternator in your car.

The alternator is not dissimilar to the generators within those power stations, turned by the engine directly, rather than by a gas or steam turbine.

But we're a VERY long way from your original question... I suspect we're getting an insight into how you've got yourself into this situation.

sambobo

the issue with the flywheel and the AC is not connected

seems too early to rule it out though? seeing as how the AC appears to fail at the same time as the rattle appears in the flywheel?

If the engine is running then the crankshaft driven by the pistons rotates. At one end the crankshaft is bolted to the Flywheel. On the other end is a pulley which drives a belt, this in turn drives the alternator and AC compressor (when the compressors clutch kicks in)

The only way there would be an issue with the flywheel and the AC at the same time would be is there was a severe problem with the engine itself which drives them both. If that was the case you would be moaning about a fault the engine and you're not

If the engine is running normally in the middle, no issue with the flywheel could be transmitted to the AC system at the other end of the engine

so you are another believer that the flywheel doesnt help the engine to run smoothly and your saying that one end of the crankshaft is isolated from the other. Im fairly sure that the crank shaft is solid. And yes I am concerned about the extent of the damage to all the other components that could be effected by the flywheel problem.

sambobo

You're getting confused with alkaline (etc) batteries. Rechargeable batteries (whether nickel-cadmium, lithium-ion or lead-acid) do not "produce" charge. They store charge, no more than that. The charge comes from power stations to your phone via the mains, and from the alternator in your car.

Can you stop bombarding me with false information. I'm not a complete buffoon, check your facts before you fling them at me please. Both Rechargeable and non-rechargeable batteries produce charge the same way with electrochemical reaction involving an anode, cathode and electrolyte. In a rechargeable battery, however, the reaction is reversible. as you say with a "power station".
I suppose you also think that your phone would get recharged still if the "power station" was producing less volts because it had a mechanical failure? you have confused a battery with a capacitor.

The alternator is not dissimilar to the generators within those power stations, turned by the engine directly, rather than by a gas or steam turbine.

true

But we're a VERY long way from your original question... I suspect we're getting an insight into how you've got yourself into this situation.

we got into this because im seeking financial advice and most people on this forum have just been banging on about car mechanics

verityboo

sambobo wrote: »

seems too early to rule it out though? seeing as how the AC appears to fail at the same time as the rattle appears in the flywheel?

so you are another believer that the flywheel doesnt help the engine to run smoothly and your saying that one end of the crankshaft is isolated from the other. Im fairly sure that the crank shaft is solid. And yes I am concerned about the extent of the damage to all the other components that could be effected by the flywheel problem.

The 2 ends of the crank shaft are obviously connected. What I am saying is that an issue with the flywheel will not be transmitted through the crankshaft (and running engine), through the pulley, through the drive belt, through the clutch on the AC compressor to the compressor itself and cause a detectable issue to the AC.

Even a rough running engine will power the AC system so it will work (the AC compressor will still be being driven, even if not smoothly) so it will still work perfectly if the flywheel has an issue

The AC issue is separate

AdrianC

sambobo wrote: »

we got into this because im seeking financial advice and most people on this forum have just been banging on about car mechanics

Hey, we're only trying to help you avoid seriously embarrassing yourself.

But <shrug> we know when help isn't wanted.

sambobo

The 2 ends of the crank shaft are obviously connected. What I am saying is that an issue with the flywheel will not be transmitted through the crankshaft (and running engine), through the pulley, through the drive belt, through the clutch on the AC compressor to the compressor itself and cause a detectable issue to the AC.

This sounds logical, do you have any experiences to back up this assumption? Do you think the crankshaft moves at different speeds at each end? What isolation is provided which stops the flywheel issue from getting to the other side of the crankshaft?

Even a rough running engine will power the AC system so it will work (the AC compressor will still be being driven, even if not smoothly) so it will still work perfectly if the flywheel has an issue

The AC issue is separate

ok this sounds logical as well, do you think the compressor clutch will still operate if there is chuggy DMF noise on the belt drive?

sambobo

Hey, we're only trying to help you avoid seriously embarrassing yourself.

But <shrug> we know when help isn't wanted.

Glad to hear it