Motor Ombudsman Advice

forgotmyname

welfayre wrote: »

You don't need to remove the gearbox to diagnose a DMF fault.

They can guess that the DMF has failed by the noise it makes. But they cannot be 100% sure its the DMF. Ive had a repair come to me saying the DMF had gone when in fact it was the coverplate that had come apart. Sometimes the plate and clutch aligned and would work but mostly it took lots of attempts to engage a gear.

To know if its just worn or failed they will have needed to remove the gearbox. They wont do that and put it back together again without fixing something.

How can they tell the DMF has failed due to a manufacturing fault without taking it out and inspecting it? Often they will have to send it back to be tested to know why it failed.

If it failed. But the OP had been using it so unlikely to have failed due to a manufacturing fault. More likely just wear and tear which is excluded as per the text they put but appear unable to read and see that its excluded.

(EDIT) forgot to post this before dinner and just noticed it still open.

Not seen any DMF recalls for the POLO. Plenty of VW forums complaining of them failing with less than 40k on the clock and VW not fixing under warranty because its a wear and tear item.

BeenThroughItAll

welfayre wrote: »

Well yes the only way to 100% confirm anything would to actually inspect the DMF. That said the "chief spanner-jockey" maybe, just maybe, knows more about VWs warranty policy than you and using this along with previous experience has confirmed that a DMF fault on a vehicle under 3 years old and within the manufactures original warranty period/mileage range will indeed be covered under said warranty. Pretty sure the OP has stated as much in previous posts.

OP posted this, to which I was referring:

it is possible that the engineers were limited by materials or cost or manufacturing techniques. This was hinted at by the head mechanic at VW gatwick although he didnt elaborate

Are you seriously trying to suggest that the grandiosely titled slightly-more-experienced-than-the-other-technicians Head Mechanic at VW Gatwick is in any way clued up on, or deep enough into the inner sanctum of VW's design and engineering teams that he'd be able to judge whether they're limited by value engineering principles?


Quite apart from the fact that VW won't manufacture the DMF themselves anyway, and will therefore be subject to their suppliers' engineering and quality governance, there's no evidence to suggest anything of the sort.


Mr Head Mechanic is simply telling what sounds like a nightmare customer what they want to hear. He won't be the one making the decision on what is and is not covered by warranty, so he has an easy get-out clause.


"If it were my choice guv, we'd do it, but VW say no. Sorry".

sambobo

This was what i said you have commented on the wrong half of the quote and therefore out of context. I didnt specify which parts the mechanic said and which parts i was speculating on.

Furthermore, the flywheel as i said before is not designed to adequately last for enough time due to the start stop and energy regeneration of the bluemotion vehicles, it is possible that the engineers were limited by materials or cost or manufacturing techniques. This was hinted at by the head mechanic at VW gatwick although he didnt elaborate as I have done in my point above.

The mechanic suggested that the flywheel fails early on bluemotion vehicles due to start stop and energy regeneration. I was speculating on the limitations of the designers. And

Are you seriously trying to suggest that the grandiosely titled slightly-more-experienced-than-the-other-technicians Head Mechanic at VW Gatwick is in any way clued up on, or deep enough into the inner sanctum of VW's design and engineering teams that he'd be able to judge whether they're limited by value engineering principles?

Yes this is obvious to any person. If the cars worked well then there would be less cause to think that they were poorly engineered.

However, IMO they haven't been poorly engineered, the people who designed this car knew exactly what they were doing when they selected this flywheel for the POLO. They planned it to fail after 60000 miles so that the customer would have to pay for new transmission, clutch, alternator, brakes, air con compressor or whatever else or decide to buy another new car. Its not illegal to do this but it is unethical and disrespectful to the environment. Similar to the parts which they build into the engine which used to be separate, the engineers claim it makes the car simpler and smaller - but actually they just design it so that you cant keep your car running forever by replacing peripheral components. If a minor part fails these days its built into a critical component so you basically have to buy a new car. unfortunately it seems a lot of flywheels are failing prematurely probably due to poor material selection by VW which suggests cost-saving was applied.

Quite apart from the fact that VW won't manufacture the DMF themselves anyway, and will therefore be subject to their suppliers' engineering and quality governance, there's no evidence to suggest anything of the sort.

Whether they manufacture the parts or someone else it is still VWs responsibility to choose the right quality components, not the burden of the sub suppliers to maintain VWs quality system.

sambobo

Well I've taken my car in for the warranty repair and there was a magic courtesy car waiting for me at the garage. (not beaten up = brand new). So clearly my complaints fell on the right ears. I have not had to pay any waiver or anything. The service adviser said if it wasn't a warranty repair then I would have had to pay for 2.5 hours of labour. so we are heading in the right direction. I wonder what they will say has to be replaced next. The service adviser said that the head mechanic thinks he would have to change the air con compressor, but did not say yet that this failed as a result of the flywheel problems.

AdrianC

sambobo wrote: »

Well I've taken my car in for the warranty repair and there was a magic courtesy car waiting for me at the garage.

Hardly magic, given that you requested it when you booked the car in a week ago.

the people who designed this car knew exactly what they were doing when they selected this flywheel for the POLO. They planned it to fail after 60000 miles

Right. Of course. Despite the minor detail that that drivetrain goes into plenty of vehicles - including commercial vehicles - which do a LOT more than 60k without issue.

so that the customer would have to pay for new transmission, clutch, alternator, brakes, air con compressor or whatever else

Does it make the fuel tank empty and the tyres go bald, too?

The service adviser said that the head mechanic thinks he would have to change the air con compressor, but did not say yet that this failed as a result of the flywheel problems.

No, I bet he didn't...

sambobo

AdrianC wrote: »

Hardly magic, given that you requested it when you booked the car in a week ago.
No, I bet he didn't...

Well last week I booked a lift to work for today as they didn't have any cars available and I was informed that there was literally no way that they could get me one. So either they were telling porkies or a miracle has occurred. Either way I'm far less disgruntled today.

I agree.. he didn't..

AdrianC

sambobo wrote: »

Well last week I booked a lift to work for today as they didn't have any cars available and I was informed that there was literally no way that they could get me one. So either they were telling porkies or a miracle has occurred.

...or somebody else has cancelled their booking. Hardly a miracle.

sambobo

AdrianC wrote: »

Does it make the fuel tank empty and the tyres go bald, too?

Good point - yes I have observed that happening as a result of the flywheel problem. 75mpg before, 30mpg after. Tyre tread i havent been monitoring. thanks I will get that included in my next correspondence with the Motor Ombudsman.

sambobo

AdrianC wrote: »

...or somebody else has cancelled their booking. Hardly a miracle.

I didn't realise the c stood for Cherlock? :T

sambobo

AdrianC wrote: »

Right. Of course. Despite the minor detail that that drivetrain goes into plenty of vehicles - including commercial vehicles - which do a LOT more than 60k without issue.

This is a bold claim. which ones?