Feel guilty I couldn't provide everything for my (immigrant from USA) spouse

McAnniee

Even in the beginning I felt awful saying "go out and get a job now" (or words to that effect) because the terms of the initial visa are that you can't work in this country for (1 year? I think?) and have to come up with all kinds of paperwork pledging financial support for the immigrant spouse and proof of earnings / savings account balances etc etc.

That's the basis someone moves here on, and I feel almost like I "moved the goalposts" in not letting it continue indefinitely!!

To be clear: all the "I feel like so and so" etc has come from me. I haven't been "bullied" or whatever into thinking this.

Mojisola

springdreams wrote: »

OP, if your husband was not keen on working, or just simply of the view that the work that he would most likely be offered was beneath him, he may well have scuppered his own chances of being offered the job during the interview stage by making these feelings known, albeit indirectly. It is highly possible that he intentionally presented himself badly at interviews. You only have his word for what went on at the interviews given that you were not actually present at any of them.

That's what I thought when I saw the feed-back from the interviewers.

They sound very much like the kind of 'reasons' given by interviewers when the interviewee has come over as just generally unsuitable - easy to do if you really don't want the job.

McAnniee

springdreams wrote: »

OP, if your husband was not keen on working, or just simply of the view that the work that he would most likely be offered was beneath him, he may well have scuppered his own chances of being offered the job during the interview stage by making these feelings known, albeit indirectly. It is highly possible that he intentionally presented himself badly at interviews. You only have his word for what went on at the interviews given that you were not actually present at any of them.

You also seem to be looking for excuses for his lazyness ...

He definitely wasn't keen on working (are any of us? Although I'm in that rare category of people who enjoy their job and are being paid to do something we like for 8-10 hours a day!)

However... I really don't think he "deliberately" sabotaged interviews. He did "need" the work at that time (financially, or with the self esteem hit that comes from being made redundant and needing psychologically to be capable of getting another job). Yes I only have his word for it but I am pretty sure that what was stated, is the truth. Although he can be quite un-self-aware and might not know what had prompted an interviewer to say he was "not authoritative enough", or whatever.

This is someone I've known for getting on for 20 years and despite faults he has always been a very upfront person in general and I am confident of that.

It's a strange one because on one hand the work was "below" what he would actually be capable of (in terms of intellect and so on) but was actually matched, or even a stretch, for someone in his circumstances. Like for example factory night work at a company known locally to be 'one of the best' employers in terms of pay and so on. The best-factory-place would likely have their pick of candidates.

springdreams

McAnniee wrote: »

Even in the beginning I felt awful saying "go out and get a job now" (or words to that effect) because the terms of the initial visa are that you can't work in this country for (1 year? I think?) and have to come up with all kinds of paperwork pledging financial support for the immigrant spouse and proof of earnings / savings account balances etc etc.

That's the basis someone moves here on, and I feel almost like I "moved the goalposts" in not letting it continue indefinitely!!

To be clear: all the "I feel like so and so" etc has come from me. I haven't been "bullied" or whatever into thinking this.

When the two of you agreed that he would move to the UK instead of you moving to the USA, was it discussed that he would find work in the UK after the initial one year period within which he was not allowed to work ran its course??

Also, peoples circumstances change. What if you had had children - would you have gone back to work within days of giving birth and your husband stay at home to look after the child, or would you have had maternity leave? If the latter, in which case, would your husband have had to go out and work in order to provide for the family? Also what would have happened if you could not work for any other reason, such as for medical reasons? Who you have expected to continue working, despite your medical condition, so that your husband could continue to stay at home?

You are feeling guilty for nothing, and seriously need to get your mind past the fact that you owed your husband a life time of sitting on his backside! You do NOT!

And lots of people do not come here expecting to sit on their backsides whilst someone else supports them. In fact many come over with a job already in hand or plans to get one asap, if they are permitted to do so by law.

McAnniee

Reflecting on all this a bit more, one possibility is that he felt emasculated / useless / unable to contribute and so took up the "It's your country and I am just a guest" etc mentality as almost a defence mechanism?

This has just occurred to me whilst typing with all of you. Any thoughts?

McAnniee

springdreams wrote: »

When the two of you agreed that he would move to the UK instead of you moving to the USA, was it discussed that he would find work in the UK after the initial one year period within which he was not allowed to work ran its course??

Yes it was discussed at length and the verdict at the time was that of course he would look for work after the first year. Ideally a 'nice clean' job (my wording, I can't remember what exactly we called it!) but if not then factory or warehouse temp work and such like would be available and he would take that.

springdreams wrote: »

Also, peoples circumstances change. What if you had had children - would you have gone back to work within days of giving birth and your husband stay at home to look after the child, or would you have had maternity leave? If the latter, in which case, would your husband have had to go out and work in order to provide for the family? Also what would have happened if you could not work for any other reason, such as for medical reasons? Who you have expected to continue working, despite your medical condition, so that your husband could continue to stay at home?

Understood, although we had always planned NOT to have children so I didn't consider the maternity leave etc situation in any detail.

If I couldn't have worked for medical reasons etc - I don't know. He would have had to find a way to cope I suppose...

I did express to him on several occasions that I feel like I'm the "backstop" and have no option to not work etc and no support even if I'm medically incapable or something like that I'd have to find a way to sort out something. That he always had the option to quit jobs and be safe in the knowledge I'd [have to] take care of it. I suppose if we were in financial dire straits he would have the option to move back to the USA and ask family for help (they're well off) at least temporarily. But really it's down to me to take care of things on a "basic" level since it's my country and I know how it works, how to word things to interviewers, what to say when I phone the Inland Revenue, etc....

springdreams wrote: »

You are feeling guilty for nothing, and seriously need to get your mind past the fact that you owed your husband a life time of sitting on his backside! You do NOT!

And lots of people do not come here expecting to sit on their backsides whilst someone else supports them. In fact many come over with a job already in hand or plans to get one asap, if they are permitted to do so by law.

Thank you!! Rationally I can see this!

But it's really hard to see someone suffer and struggle, and feel like I "should" be able to prevent that.

balletshoes

McAnniee wrote: »

He definitely wasn't keen on working
(are any of us? Although I'm in that rare category of people who enjoy their job and are being paid to do something we like for 8-10 hours a day!)

However... I really don't think he "deliberately" sabotaged interviews. He did "need" the work at that time (financially, or with the self esteem hit that comes from being made redundant and needing psychologically to be capable of getting another job). Yes I only have his word for it but I am pretty sure that what was stated, is the truth. Although he can be quite un-self-aware and might not know what had prompted an interviewer to say he was "not authoritative enough", or whatever.

This is someone I've known for getting on for 20 years and despite faults he has always been a very upfront person in general and I am confident of that.

It's a strange one because on one hand the work was "below" what he would actually be capable of (in terms of intellect and so on) but was actually matched, or even a stretch, for someone in his circumstances. Like for example factory night work at a company known locally to be 'one of the best' employers in terms of pay and so on. The best-factory-place would likely have their pick of candidates.

ok right there, first sentence - he's an adult, moving to live and settle in another country and build a marriage/family. How did he think that was going to happen if he wasn't going to get a job? Sure he could have been the stay-at-home spouse or parent, but did you discuss that as the situation you'd both be aspiring to?

Again I'm asking OP, if you had gone to live with him in the US all those years ago, would you be going thinking you were a guest, that you weren't going to get a job, assimilate, get to know your neighbourhood and your new home environment? Thats an alien concept to me, and I've been through it. If my husband couldn't have settled here in the UK, we'd have gone to live in his country (non-EEA, where English is not the first (or 2nd) language). I would have had to learn to speak the language, I would have had to work, I would have had to get out there and meet my new neighbours. Otherwise I'd have felt alienated and lonely.

springdreams

OP, he's been here for 17 years!! He lost his "guest" status years ago!

I've been here for 17 years too, and actually feel like a visitor when I go back to South Africa. The UK feels like home to me, and it has done for very many years already.

balletshoes

McAnniee wrote: »

Reflecting on all this a bit more, one possibility is that he felt emasculated / useless / unable to contribute and so took up the "It's your country and I am just a guest" etc mentality as almost a defence mechanism?

This has just occurred to me whilst typing with all of you. Any thoughts?

I think thats possibly the excuse he used because he didn't want to work. I just don't believe that a young healthy man who speaks English well couldn't get a job and a life in the UK, if he really wanted it. Did he have a sense of entitlement do you think ie the jobs weren't good enough for him, rather than "start at the bottom and work your way up"? Maybe you enabled that a little due to your own feelings of guilt that he came to be with you (ie you seem to think that the job interviews your husband went on in the early days were not conducted correctly etc).

Bottom line is, having been through the process at round about the same time you did, you have no reason to feel guilty or that you didn't help him enough (especially after 17 years!). He's a grown man, he was then too, and he had to take the intiative and find his own way of life in the UK.

McAnniee

balletshoes wrote: »

ok right there, first sentence - he's an adult, moving to live and settled in another country and build a marriage/family. How did he think that was going to happen if he wasn't going to get a job? Sure he could have been the stay-at-home spouse or parent, but did you discuss that as the situation you'd both be aspiring to? .

We didn't 'aspire' to that situation, no. All the discussions at the start were that he would find work here, even if it had to be a horrible job initially then "at least they have to pay the minimum wage". And I really believe that working was what he intended (and did do, for many years!)

balletshoes wrote: »

Again I'm asking OP, if you had gone to live with him in the US all those years ago, would you be going thinking you were a guest, that you weren't going to get a job, assimilate, get to know your neighbourhood and your new home environment? Thats an alien concept to me, and I've been through it. If my husband couldn't have settled here in the UK, we'd have gone to live in his country (non-EEA, where English is not the first (or 2nd) language). I would have had to learn to speak the language, I would have had to work, I would have had to get out there and meet my new neighbours. Otherwise I'd have felt alienated and lonely.

Sorry, for some reason I thought that was a rhetorical question when you asked it before so I didn't explicitly answer!

If I had gone to the US then no I wouldn't have gone there thinking I would be a "guest" and so on. I would have intended to find work when I legally could and integrate myself, learn to drive on the 'wrong' side of the road (:cool:), make contacts and network etc. Although maybe if I'd failed in that, I would look to the 'native' spouse to provide as presumably they already had an established life.