Feel guilty I couldn't provide everything for my (immigrant from USA) spouse

McAnniee

balletshoes wrote: »

Did he have a sense of entitlement do you think ie the jobs weren't good enough for him, rather than "start at the bottom and work your way up"?

Honestly I don't think so, not as such. He was far from 'entitled' or 'pretentious' etc about "deserving a much better job than mundane warehouse work" or anything like that.

However.. he does value competence highly (as do I) and doesn't suffer fools. So it's possible or probable that he had some contempt for "stupid people" interviewers who weren't really fit to be managers!

balletshoes wrote: »

Maybe you enabled that a little due to your own feelings of guilt that he came to be with you (ie you seem to think that the job interviews your husband went on in the early days were not conducted correctly etc).

Based on the information I have, it seems like the interviewing managers in those situations were very 'short sighted', couldn't think beyond a tickbox mentality, etc. I have encountered people like this myself in my own experience (e.g. the 'James'-rejecting manager at my company) so I definitely see that they exist!

Caroline_a

To be honest, OP, I don't think that anything any of us on here say will make a difference to what you think. You appear to have married a man-child, and taken the role of his mother, particular in regard to his employment, and he has played on this by offering excuses as to how awful employers were to him, both in interviews and also during employment. This has developed a huge sense of guilt in you, but it's not your fault! He's an adult, adults are supposed to take responsibility for themselves, not lump the blame over on to someone else.

In a few months or years you will be able to look back on these feelings and realise this. He now has to stand on his own two feet unless he's found another mug to prop him up. Let's see how that goes.

Spendless

Many factory, warehouse, call centre and even some retail job (Sports Direct anyone??) are indeed kr@ppy. I temp somewhere that I don't rate as an employer. If that is all you can find then that might be down to the local job market. Or it could be down to you never taking qualifications, asking for more responsibilities, extra training or anything that would make you move on from the 'kr@ppy' position. It is highly unlikely to be because 'you're an American'

TBagpuss

McAnniee wrote: »

But it's really hard to see someone suffer and struggle, and feel like I "should" be able to prevent that.

I think this may be the crux of the problem. It sounds to me as though you are perhaps the kind of person who is good at problem solving. It's a useful skill to have, but I think there is a danger of seeing *everything* as a problem which it is your responsibility to solve.

There are some things, and I think your ex's difficulty in getting / keeping jobs is one of them, that are not your responsibility to fix, and which may not be fixable. Not least because part of the issue would seem to be your ex's character and that's something only he can change.

I do think that being a foreigner does add a layer of difficulty to things such as finding work, but so do lots of things - I am sure that many of us here have experienced situations where we have been treated unfairly or less favourably for an equally arbitrary reason, but it is not universal - for instance, I've had job interviews where it was clear to me that the fact I am female meant I was never in with a chance, or where the interviewer was pretty clueless. It happens. But it doesn't normally happen every time.

justme111

McAnniee wrote: »

Reflecting on all this a bit more, one possibility is that he felt emasculated / useless / unable to contribute and so took up the "It's your country and I am just a guest" etc mentality as almost a defence mechanism?

This has just occurred to me whilst typing with all of you. Any thoughts?

Yep
It makes perfect sense
Nothing worse than dealing with men i a vulnerable position. Btw if you indeed maintained him all the time it still would not have worked precisely for that reason.
Re humiliation- most of us had it , in our country or elsewhere. If you have not yet it does not mean you will not.

Hermia

McAnniee wrote: »

However.. he does value competence highly (as do I) and doesn't suffer fools. So it's possible or probable that he had some contempt for "stupid people" interviewers who weren't really fit to be managers!

Whenever I see that phrase used to describe someone they are always someone who has little patience with others and thinks themselves better than others!

I still am utterly baffled by your belief that you should have taken responsibility for everything because he was a 'guest'. Have you actually spoken to other immigrants? I have many immigrants/emmigrants amongst the people I know and none believe this. Even my friend who moved to Japan (a very difficult country for foreigners to get their heads round) tried to lean on his Japanese wife as little as possible and integrate as quickly as possible.

I also don't understand why you are hung up on the interview situation. People get rejected for jobs for dumb reasons all the time. It happens to Brits. It happens to Americans over in America. It is just life. That is why applying for jobs is a numbers game. I really can't imagine he encountered this situation more than the rest of us.

BTW, do you think he is sitting around endlessly worrying about what he did wrong and whether he could have worked on the marriage/life more? If not, why are you? I do think you need to think about this because you could easily get stuck in this cycle again. If you next OH has any failings or insecurities are you going to be blaming yourself for not fixing everything?

Hermia

McAnniee wrote: »

Reflecting on all this a bit more, one possibility is that he felt emasculated / useless / unable to contribute and so took up the "It's your country and I am just a guest" etc mentality as almost a defence mechanism?

This has just occurred to me whilst typing with all of you. Any thoughts?

Maybe, but that is still his problem. Or would you have been willing to spend your life fluttering your eyelashes, pretending to be dumb and saying, "oh, you are so clever, big boy!" in an effort to make him feel less emasculated? If he felt like that he could have got off his bum and got some qualifications and worked on becoming the breadwinner.

justme111

Do you by any chance feel you are guilty because of many little things you do not list on here? Like for example complaining that the buck stops with you and he can afford to to not have a job but you can not? Are you questioning yourself as deep down you know you looked at him with disappointment in your eyes?
That would be another topic and a very complicated one and one which we would be unable to help as there are so many nuances in how relationship develops..
So in response to your question as you formulated it you know it is resounding "no" (" I would rather be lifelong single than with a man I had to "provide for", I feel like puking when I think of it) but could it be that the main question is not the one you written?
In any case you both better off with other people; dare I say it likely to do him good to be responsible for someone and that is why he has chosen her very likely- self preservation instinct - and you have somewhere someone you could rely on instead of feeling shortchanged by being 'the provider".
Btw I was single for a long time and however much my singletood was getting me down I would not even consider someone who does not like the job he does/does not have a passion and grit. If you like your job you better look for similar mindset people, otherwise it is likely to be difficult
PS. Someone in the thread mentioned it is disrespectful to look at a person (let alone a man) as if their failings and achievements were our responsibility. You did not reply to that. You did not reply to some other posts. I supose it is because it is not as easy as replying to posts about children or infidelity. I am with hermia and tbgpuss - you look disrespectful to your man in assuming that responsibility and in danger of it repeating itself.

NBLondon

McAnniee wrote: »

I'm still struggling though with the idea that he had to go to interviews for these low level jobs and be humiliated by jumped up hiring managers who were probably just promoted so they couldn't do any damage to actual operations

McAnniee wrote: »

Yeah, it was quite a long time ago! But it does still rankle with me, yes, because it seems like these hiring managers were so stupid and I get annoyed quickly with incompetence, people who just don't think, etc.!

I partly agree - there are some HR managers who are basically useless; they tick the boxes and then look for a mythical person who meets the ideal image they already have in their head. Yes - sometimes, the interviewee knows far more about the role/task than the manager doing the hiring. But if you want the job - you may have to hide that. Letting them know you think they're an idiot doesn't work. Didn't you say your husband lacked social skills?

McAnniee wrote: »

But really it's down to me to take care of things on a "basic" level since it's my country and I know how it works, how to word things to interviewers, what to say when I phone the Inland Revenue, etc.

Unless English is not his first language... a college grad from the US should be capable of working this out; finding books on interview technique, reading the leaflets from govt departments (which have been written exceedingly simply for the last 20 years at least). Maybe in the first year if he doesn't twig that an NI Number is what they call a Social Security Number or something. But not for 17 years! Sorry, McAnnie, but it sounds like you've been an enabler too long; making excuses and possibly letting him fall into the mindset of victim.

clint_S

McAnniee wrote: »

I'm not sure if "racism" is the right word actually but I've come across a lot of vocal dislike of Americans and actually in one situation a hiring manager at my employer had received my OH's CV as there was a job vacancy and he would have been a good fit. I overheard the hiring manager going through the CVs commenting on them and rejected his as "We don't want any Americans here!"

(This manager later rejected a perfectly suited different applicant for a different job on the grounds that "we can't hire this guy cos his name is James*, we already have a James in the team and it would be too confusing") Many years later 'James' was hired for that role when it came up again, with a different manager by that stage, and was perfect!
* not real name.

I can believe this, When you get hundreds of CVs people do all sorts of things to get the numbers down. I once witness someone taking half the CVs and putting them in the bin stating they didn't want unlucky people.

McAnniee wrote: »

Some of the other issues were: no credit history (failed credit checks) not on the electoral role so can't prove identity, etc.

The first thing we did when my wife moved over was to set her up with a bank account and credit card, what has he done to fail credit checks. My wife was also added to the electoral role by the council, they actually chased us to get her registered and we had a few house visits, after living here for 5 years, although she wasn't allowed to vote in general elections she could in council and local elections.