Feel guilty I couldn't provide everything for my (immigrant from USA) spouse

balletshoes

McAnniee wrote: »

Hi,

I've posted another thread about the divorce process but this is separate from that one.

Spouse and I are now splitting up after 17 years. We met online long distance (USA/UK); Spouse was in USA University at the time and I was about to start Distance Learning (Open University) studies while taking an entry level job.

Subsequently Fiance moved here to the UK, I had to fill in the immigration paperwork and pledge financial support for 6 months-1 year as they couldn't legally work here pending a Permanent Residence (PR) subject to Marriage which we did. I suppressed any "non-essential" expenditure during this time (food, medical essentials...) to make everything above board.

Once the Permanent Residence was obtained Spouse earnestly set out to find jobs but was restricted to miniumum-wage factory/warehouse type jobs based on being "Foreign" (I witnessed racism first hand) lack of cultural awareness or social skills applicable to the UK, etc. The USA and UK are truly divided by a common language despite that PR allows working the same as a "Native" Brit (sample comment: We don't want any Americans here!) ! This went on for many years, 10 or so.

I felt horribly guilty the whole time, like I should be able to provide for them so that they won't have to work at all, because after all they are my "guest" here in the UK. Every time Spouse came home with a tale of some crappy unreasonable thing their Boss had said, I thought they wouldn't have to go through this **** at all if only I could earn enough to provide for both of us so they wouldn't have to work.

At what point, or in what circs, are you "responsible" for providing for a (permanent) partner, rather than having equal inputs to the finances?

I'm really struggling with this currently, I feel like the UK visa system set up this situation in a way. But the feeling of being "responsible" for minimising others' suffering goes deeper than that.

* Yes, I have spoken to a therapist about this! Her verdict was each individual is sovereign and I don't have any responsibility or obligation to any other 'sovereign' individual, but my gut is strongly against that.

your therapist is 100% correct. My spouse is a non-EEA national, so we went through all the spouse settlement visa to the UK stuff too, about 14 years ago now. Yep, he had loads of trouble getting any job when he first got here, then it was minimum-wage warehouse/factory work for quite a while, and that didn't make for a happy spouse or a happy household. But there are people out there who are willing to employ non-UK citizens, my husband got a job in his profession in one establishment and then went on from strength to strength. He had to work, its not in his nature or his cultural background to not contribute to the household finances, and if he hadn't been able to find work I honestly don't think staying here in the UK would have been a viable option for us.

Put the boot on the other foot - if you had moved to your spouse's country, would you have honestly expected him to fully financially support you forever?

FBaby

I don't know who left who for someone else, but clearly, someone should have done more to save the relationship, whether here or in the USA.

Your guilt as you describe it has no rationale, so you must be transferring for something else. Either way, what's the point of it? Do you have regrets, do you plan on doing something about it? Otherwise, seems just like a complete waste of mental energy.

NBLondon

McAnniee wrote: »

was restricted to miniumum-wage factory/warehouse type jobs based on being "Foreign" (I witnessed racism first hand) lack of cultural awareness or social skills applicable to the UK, etc.

Was there racism? Or were attitudes and social skills possibly the biggest issue? An American with a college degree (which isn't always equivalent to a UK degree) should be able to get on as well as or better than a native-born BME individual with a few GCSEs. I worked as a training manager in a warehouse environment once and those who progressed were those who picked up the work quickest and offered to learn new tasks - which included a couple of Somali-born guys and a Slovak.


Now I'm attached to the Healthcare sector, I see quite a few Eastern Europeans who have nursing qualifications doing fairly low-level roles - because (as was said above) their qualifications aren't recognised and accepted. But they can still be earning nearly as much as they were at home - and those who are prepared to put in some evening work to get a UK qualification are moving up quickly.


There might have been some employers who were over-cautious about taking on someone with a visa (or not being prepared to do the checking on what sort of visa it was) but that should have been only for the first few years. If the problem had been going on for much longer - and you were struggling to support both of you - you should have been asking this question much sooner.

justme111

Re more support - so what could you have done differently then? Apart from you moving to USA because your ex did not get on here. Are you feeling guilty because you have not?

Hermia

McAnniee wrote: »

To be fair he didn't "moan" about bosses etc per se but it was obvious to me that these were crappy jobs that engendered the opposite of job satisfaction, security, achievement etc. He had got jobs because he had to (or because I said so?? I don't know any more) and quit the last one when it was too much and from what I heard about what went on there, anyone with options (even if the option was living off someone else at that point) would have left, it was that bad.

I feel like I've been the bully in all this and just to be clear, I haven't been "gaslighted" into thinking that in any way. I just feel responsible for creating the situation.

You honestly make him sound like he is a child or has some sort of mental incapacity! He is a MAN and he could have changed things. It was not your job to sort out his life or make things better. So, he had crappy jobs? So do lots of people. He could have done all the things a British person does to get themselves out of that situation (go to evening classes, network, apply for every job going). He could have capitalized on his background in some way. Plenty of places do actually like having staff with different backgrounds. Why do you think that him moving here automatically made you his mummy for ever? I expect that if he had married an American and stayed in America he would currently be working in some crappy job over there because he sounds like he lacked a lot of get up and go.

Pollycat

McAnniee wrote: »

* Yes, I have spoken to a therapist about this! Her verdict was each individual is sovereign and I don't have any responsibility or obligation to any other 'sovereign' individual, but my gut is strongly against that.

I agree with this ^^^

McAnniee wrote: »

Thanks, I am hoping someone can change my mind as I have a pretty negative point of view at this moment and feel like I must be missing something.

If a therapist couldn't change your mind, I doubt that random strangers on t'internet will be able to do so.

Mojisola

McAnniee wrote: »

Yes, I have spoken to a therapist about this! Her verdict was each individual is sovereign and I don't have any responsibility or obligation to any other 'sovereign' individual, but my gut is strongly against that.

I imagine that gut feeling is why you've been the only bread-winner for some years - are you sure that your spouse hasn't been playing you in order to get an easy life?

Fireflyaway

My husband is an immigrant. He came here with poor English and in addition has a very foreign sounding name and is dark skinned. Sure he has encountered racism now and again but he now speaks the language as well as me ( better probably!), has a very well paid job (4 times the pay of mine) and has been promoted at work several times. Yes its meant a lot of effort and possibly he may have been overlooked in the past ( hard to prove either way) but despite starting off with quite a few barriers he has done really well. I say all this because I find it hard to believe that an American could find things any harder? There is no language issue and the US and UK share very similar cultural values ( certainly compared to where my husband is from). Has he used this as an excuse? Not saying he never experienced issues but to the extent he is saying? Seems over the top. Maybe he is just hard to get on with in general or is lazy and wants to blame others instead?
Don't feel bad. You have done your bit and a grown man needs to take responsibility at some point.

Mojisola

Fireflyaway wrote: »

Don't feel bad. You have done your bit and a grown man needs to take responsibility at some point.

It wouldn't matter whether the spouse was male or female, your point stands - it sounds as if the 'difficult time' has been milked to get an easy life at home.

clint_S

Honestly it sounds like he has a problem with authority and that's what preventing him from doing anything other than minimum wage jobs and getting picked on by his bosses. One place might have a bad boss or anti-American people but every place is very doubtful.


My Wife is American and moved over here after having our daughter, due to the process to move to American taking over 10 months whilst her visa took 3 weeks! She was a oncology specialist working in a top ten US hospital, the NHS said she needed to work for free for 12 months. So she got a job in a call centre whilst looking for other work. She is currently authorising a new lavatory for drug stability work for a large Pharmaceutical company. She is very well liked in her current role and the only issue she has ever had was in the call centre.


If you ex was not American but British would you expect more from them? 1 - 2 years I can understand having difficulties in settling but 17 years is having a laugh.