Electric cars

AdrianC

Herzlos wrote: »

Or are you now accepting that modern EVs would be suitable for most drivers use cases?

Nope - but they're not as far as they were, even back at the start of this thread. Another few years, and they might start to make sense more widely than the current greenwash-bling second cars.

But the infrastructure will still be the show-stopper for most, long after they can actually afford something that properly meets their requirements, especially in urban areas. Of course, the real wins in urban areas would be moving away from private car use, rather than tickling with the technology...

jimbo6977

Well looking at the range figures, and given the current inability to charge at place of work, the ion looks like a bad idea for me.

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

I'm sorry, was I somehow unclear?


p17 - specifications
https://www.l-lynch.com/docs/JCB-19C-1E.pdf

I'm sorry, is the info in the vid somehow unclear, with around 80% battery remaining after 1.9hrs work?

AdrianC wrote: »

No. Because it's such a trivial electrification - remove 70kg diesel and 18l fuel tank from 1.8t machine, insert small electric motor and <20kWh battery pack. The motor doesn't drive anything but a hydraulic pump, after all

Why is the electrification of heavy plant trivial to you? I'd have thought it an excellent way to save money, maintenance, servicing, emissions etc..

Or does swapping out the small engine in this case, for a small motor and small batt pack, somehow not suggest to you that things can be scaled up, up and away?

Don't tell me, till you can lick it, it doesn't exist ...... again! :rotfl:

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Why is the electrification of heavy plant trivial to you? I'd have thought it an excellent way to save money, maintenance, servicing, emissions etc.

Trivially straightforward..

Or does swapping out the small engine in this case, for a small motor and small batt pack, somehow not suggest to you that things can be scaled up, up and away?

Of course they can. JCB aren't the only ones, either, nor are mini-diggers the only plant.
https://www.wackerneuson.co.uk/en/products/dumpers/wheel-dumpers/model/copy-1501/
Similar-sized power units to the digger.

They just won't scale very far before charge times start to mean that they're simply not going to be available for work on site the next day.

Fine example - I mentioned the 6t digger used on our garage. It was left here overnight while working.
Or the biiiiig digger used to demolish the village school a year or two back. That was left on site for weeks until the site was completely clear. No 415v 3ph on either site, of course.

"Full-size" excavators go up to about 80t working weight. Yer average building-site one? Probably 25-30t, with a 200bhp 5 litre turbodiesel. That's a chuffin' big battery going to be needed, isn't it?

zeupater

AdrianC wrote: »

..."Full-size" excavators go up to about 80t working weight. Yer average building-site one? Probably 25-30t, with a 200bhp 5 litre turbodiesel. That's a chuffin' big battery going to be needed, isn't it?

:coffee:... Cough ... splutter .... :eek: ... gulp!! - that's better

Oh no, not the portable charging generator the size of a house argument again ... are you sure you're not just trying to have a laugh again? ... or is it that the desperation level is ramping up ... ? ....

200bhp? ... think that needs a 'chuffin' big battery' ? .... :rotfl: ... there are people posting on this thread with e.powertrains that would eat that and spit out a considerable herd of horses in change and all that being powered by batteries that you can hide under the passenger seats in a 1.5-2tonne car as opposed to the massive void that would be available if you removed a diesel lump, so it's basically a case of uprating the electric motors & their supporting mechanics ...

Anyway, just looking at the JCB range as an example, even the large tracked excavators (eg 220x) seem to be ~30tonnes / 130kW & cost well over £100k so we're really looking well into the extremes of both the range and the issue at hand, but this type of equipment isn't what you'd use on a typical building site so chances are that a three phase supply would be on hand at an industrial site (quarry etc), but even if charging on site was inconvenient there's no reason to believe that a modular battery solution using other site equipment couldn't be developed & used ...


.... sit back, have a relaxing beer & join the rest of humanity in the real world! ... it's much more fun around here since the Cretaceous period ended ...

HTH
Z

Herzlos

I'd assume most building sites will have at least a 13A supply at some point (because you're probably building near something) with easily 15 hours charging time (5pm-8am) every night. You'll get some uses where theres no power and longer working days, but that can presumably be overcome somehow, or stay diesel.
Theres also plenty of digger jobs that are done in a day and can recharge at the depot.

AdrianC

Herzlos wrote: »

I'd assume most building sites will have at least a 13A supply at some point (because you're probably building near something) with easily 15 hours charging time (5pm-8am) every night. You'll get some uses where theres no power and longer working days, but that can presumably be overcome somehow, or stay diesel.
Theres also plenty of digger jobs that are done in a day and can recharge at the depot.

Sure. For smaller plant, like the ones already done.

13A 230v x 15hrs = 45kWh

NBLondon

zeupater wrote: »

but even if charging on site was inconvenient there's no reason to believe that a modular battery solution using other site equipment couldn't be developed & used

Presumably the sticking point there would be whether it is feasible for one person (maybe two) to disconnect the battery, remove from vehicle and replace with a charged battery from the stack in say ten minutes. Then the "empties" are loaded into an electric pick-up and taken to the depot for overnight charging and brought back at 6 am the next day. Like a bigger version of swapping out the battery pack on a cordless drill at lunch time.

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

Trivially straightforward..


Of course they can. JCB aren't the only ones, either, nor are mini-diggers the only plant.
https://www.wackerneuson.co.uk/en/products/dumpers/wheel-dumpers/model/copy-1501/
Similar-sized power units to the digger.

They just won't scale very far before charge times start to mean that they're simply not going to be available for work on site the next day.

Fine example - I mentioned the 6t digger used on our garage. It was left here overnight while working.
Or the biiiiig digger used to demolish the village school a year or two back. That was left on site for weeks until the site was completely clear. No 415v 3ph on either site, of course.

"Full-size" excavators go up to about 80t working weight. Yer average building-site one? Probably 25-30t, with a 200bhp 5 litre turbodiesel. That's a chuffin' big battery going to be needed, isn't it?

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Someone didn't watch the vid and the bit with site deployable solar and water systems.

But just to be clear, are you saying that motors and batts can only be fitted to small plant, not large plant?

Are you saying that 'all' large plant, on large projects, will be on sites without any leccy supply, single or three phase?

Looks to me like you are getting a bit desperate now to find problems. Sorry, I meant ever more desperate, as the 'desperation' ship sailed long, long ago.

:rotfl:

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Someone didn't watch the vid and the bit with site deployable solar and water systems.

Oh, whoop-de-flippin-doo. Solar...

But just to be clear, are you saying that motors and batts can only be fitted to small plant, not large plant?

I fairly clearly said the exact opposite.

Are you saying that 'all' large plant, on large projects, will be on sites without any leccy supply, single or three phase?

I fairly clearly said the exact opposite.