Electric cars

Martyn1981

NBLondon wrote: »

Presumably the sticking point there would be whether it is feasible for one person (maybe two) to disconnect the battery, remove from vehicle and replace with a charged battery from the stack in say ten minutes. Then the "empties" are loaded into an electric pick-up and taken to the depot for overnight charging and brought back at 6 am the next day. Like a bigger version of swapping out the battery pack on a cordless drill at lunch time.

Sounds ideal, especially as you have heavy plant and experienced operators on site already. I've said the same about farmers, possibly having multiple EV's but sharing batt packs, just like the sets of tools we can buy today, saving on the cost of a battery for every vehicle.

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

Oh, whoop-de-flippin-doo. Solar...


I fairly clearly said the exact opposite.


I fairly clearly said the exact opposite.

Where did you clearly and exactly say that?

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Sounds ideal, especially as you have heavy plant and experienced operators on site already. I've said the same about farmers, possibly having multiple EV's but sharing batt packs, just like the sets of tools we can buy today, saving on the cost of a battery for every vehicle.

Typical 20kWh battery pack is, what, 150kg or so?

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Where did you clearly and exactly say that?

I know you find reading what's actually written in my posts quite hard, but...

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

Typical 20kWh battery pack is, what, 150kg or so?


I know you find reading what's actually written in my posts quite hard, but...

Are you saying heavy plant can't handle a 150kg battery pack?

PS - Where did you clearly and exactly say that?

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Are you saying heavy plant can't handle a 150kg battery pack?

...no...

I do wish you wouldn't try and put words into my mouth that are clearly not intended. It smacks of desperation to prove something you know isn't there.

jimbo6977

jeepjunkie wrote: »

Yup it will do that all year without issue, but you can forget the mythical 93 mile range. Assuming you don't have a heavy right foot and too much heater 60 - low 70 miles is the norm.

My commute is 54 miles without issue. Sometimes I have access to workplace charging or stop at a quiet free rapid on route to top-up as another 20 miles is the evening is common.

I would say the 8 year warranty covers pretty little given the stupid servicing costs.

And at almost twice the price I paid...

Saves a shitload of money

Cheers

Seriously you picked one up for 4k or is there a typo?

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

...no...

I do wish you wouldn't try and put words into my mouth that are clearly not intended. It smacks of desperation to prove something you know isn't there.

Then you'll be happy to 'clearly' explain what you are saying and why?

PS - Where did you clearly and exactly say that?

Herzlos

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Sounds ideal, especially as you have heavy plant and experienced operators on site already. I've said the same about farmers, possibly having multiple EV's but sharing batt packs, just like the sets of tools we can buy today, saving on the cost of a battery for every vehicle.

Especially when you consider that not all equipment is used all the time - so you probably don't need to swap that often unless running multiple battery packs (or trailers, depending on the job scope).

AdrianC wrote: »

I do wish you wouldn't try and put words into my mouth that are clearly not intended. It smacks of desperation to prove something you know isn't there.

I think you need to be a lot clearer in your posts then. You seemed to be implying that switching 150kg battery packs would be inplausible for plant. Yet telehandlers load and unload 1000+kg day in and out.
150kg is about the ball park of a car engine, which you can do more or less by hand with an engine hoist. It take ages because of the shape and all the cabling, neither of which is the same problem for a battery pack which has presumably 1 cable and can be any shape.



Or you don't even need the battery to be internal depending on the job, in which case it's no more complicated than hitching a trailer or plugging in the cable. Obviously a trailers going to be a nightmare for a forklift, but trivial for a plow. For industrial equipment, the battery doesn't even need to be that well hidden.


It really is just a bigger equivalent of interchangeable batteries for drills/saws/etc.


I understand it's a change in approach, but technology drives change all the time and the cost/environmental savings could be phenomenal. I'm sure most farmers would happily tele-load a battery pack every couple of hours if it saved them money on diesel and maintenance; they'll likely already have the tele-handler to get pallets on/off trailers anyway.


People complained about steam and diesel when it was new too, and all the inconvenience that'd cause.

NBLondon

Hang on... swapping battery packs is going to vary depending on use.

For an agricultural setting - two batteries (one in use one on charge) where you can swap the same battery pack from ditch digger to plough to muck spreader depending on that day's job and you've got an (electric?) tele-handler in the yard to swap it over.

But we were talking about a remote site - changing the battery pack in the mini-digger at lunchtime. If you need another piece of equipment to do that - it slows down the process. Perhaps you need the engine hoist sized crane on the back of the pickup that delivers the spares - if two crew can swap over in 10 to 15 minutes; it will work. More than that - maybe not.

How about electric forklifts or scissor lifts in a large warehouse or timber yard. Run all day and charge at night is already here. A smaller and lighter version which needs to change battery pack at lunchtime means it has to be feasible for one operator to make that change.

AdrianC

Herzlos wrote: »

You seemed to be implying that switching 150kg battery packs would be inplausible for plant. Yet telehandlers load and unload 1000+kg day in and out.
150kg is about the ball park of a car engine, which you can do more or less by hand with an engine hoist. It take ages because of the shape and all the cabling, neither of which is the same problem for a battery pack which has presumably 1 cable and can be any shape.

20kWh/150kg is replacing a 70kg diesel in those little minidiggers. Those diesel engines never need replacing.

Anyway, we're talking about the much bigger kit. So a minimum of, say, 100kWh battery. Yes, it could be 5 x 20kWh packs. Either way, they've got to be removed, loaded into a wagon, back to base, charged, back to site, refitted. Every night.

Or a bowser of diesel as needed.

Then you've got the power requirement for the base. Say a dozen machines recharging 100kWh packs overnight. I make that 250A at 415v. Big cable...

And that's before we consider that a lot of plant is hired, rather than owned. Who's installing that big fat charge cable, and what charger?

It really is just a bigger equivalent of interchangeable batteries for drills/saws/etc.

Indeed. Which are still at the domestic end of the market. Yes, you can get bigger battery packs for pro kit - Stihl do them as backpacks because of the weight.

https://www.stihl.co.uk/STIHL-Products/STIHL-Cordless-Power-Systems/PRO-Cordless-Power-System-for-large-gardens-and-professionals/Li-Ion-batteries-and-chargers/261316-28211/AR-3000-backpack-battery.aspx
That gives two to three hours use in a big brushcutter. Buy tool, battery and the fastest charger (nearly 3hrs for that big pack), and it's about 60-70% more than the equivalent four-stroke brushcutter.

I've been looking at a pole pruner and long-reach hedge trimmer lately. Quality-for-quality, you're looking at about 25-50% more by the time you've bought battery pack and charger. Future tools would be cheaper, sure, but only if you accept the manufacturer lock-in.

NBLondon wrote: »

How about electric forklifts or scissor lifts in a large warehouse or timber yard. Run all day and charge at night is already here.

Yep, has been for many years. They're pretty much standard for indoor use, and have been since replacing propane. Mostly still on lead-acid batteries, AIUI, because they're cheap and weight's not a great issue.