Electric cars

shinytop

AdrianC wrote: »

^ This, with bells on.

A Model 3 is a small car in the US. The Model S and X aren't particularly huge by their standards, either.

By comparison - Ford sell the Fiesta, but primarily as a "Look, we hug bunnies!" citycar novelty. It's a chunk longer than it is here, because it has a boot on it. They don't sell anything Focus-sized any more. The next size up of car they sell is the Fusion, which is Mondeo-sized. Then there's the Taurus above that. They are, of course, moving away from "car-cars" to SUVs - because that's what sells in shedloads. The "car-car" market there is dead, which is why the headlines about how the Model 3 is a massive runaway success can get away with it - they ignore SUVs. But we've been there before...
As far as SUVs go, they sell the same EcoSport as we get here, the Escape is pretty much the Kuga, and the Edge is the same as here. Then there's three more ever-larger above that - Flex, Explorer, Expedition - and that's MAHOOSIVE.

You want Fiesta- and Focus-sized EVs, they're coming from the Far East and from Europe. They ain't coming from the US.

Which I suppose is what I'm waiting for. American cars have never done particularly well anywhere else anyway. Partly because they were too big and thirsty but also because they were a bit cr*p.

AdrianC

shinytop wrote: »

Which I suppose is what I'm waiting for.

Leaf, Zoe, i3, e-Golf, e-Smart, e-Berlingo/Partner etc etc on the market now, have been for a while. To varying numbers of sales.

American cars have never done particularly well anywhere else anyway. Partly because they were too big and thirsty but also because they were a bit cr*p.

<nods>

almillar

As previously advised, announced on cost for battery ownership in Germany throughout the ZE50 range is €8090 (~£7300) ....

Yes. But UK pricing hasn't been announced for ZE50, and I was talking about ZE40. Republic of Ireland has got rid of battery rental, BTW.

All cost comparisons (purchase or lease) between EVs should be on the same basis, therefore either a total lease cost (including batteries) or a total purchase cost (including batteries).

Agreed, but as I said in my post, I'm not talking about list prices, I'm talking about getting a deal on one of the last of a run-out model.

Anyway, whilst on the subject ... with the increasing provision of charge points, what are the chances of someone offering an all inclusive vehicle lease option hitting the market soon - something along the lines of 3 years/60k miles/all servicing/all electricity (nominated provider) to provide a 3 year fixed cost monthly motoring budget!? ...

I think you mean https://fuelincluded.com/ ! Was set up by a guy that ran a Zoe forum. The electric is included, AFAIR, but not servicing. Looking at the website, it looks like they've moved on after slow sales but you can maybe still get details of the car setup.

The only other advantage to a larger battery is the ability to software lock the additional capacity so that any degradation over the years is 'hidden' to the end user.

Well, yes, already happening (for degredation curve purposes, not really charging speed), but not 10kWh at a time, more like 2kWh-ish. My Zoe arrived with me at 105% battery capacity!

Whilst initially I was keeping it up and around 80-90%, which gives me over 160miles of range. However, since I rarely do over 100miles, I now keep it charged to around 60%. This means I can 'top up' at rapid charges from say 40-100 miles much faster than when I was constantly doing 100-160miles.

Yep, charging any car to the 'top' will always be slower than charging the bottom and middle. Not worth hanging around waiting for a car at 90% unless you need the charge for your next journey.

keep improving battery capacity, whilst maintaining the same size/weight. Much like we saw with the 22-41kWh Zoe, and 24-30-40-62kWh Leaf.

I've talked about this before - Lithium Ion batteries can only go so far. Energy density is still getting better fast, but I don't think Zoe, for example will ~double in range, like ZE22 to ZE40 did.

That was also Nissan's insistence on having only passive cooling.

The Zoe had no issues continually charging at 43kW on it's Q90 model AFAIK?

Correct.

Rocksolid

I'm still asking myself how the owners of non hybrid or electric cars will drive in London bigger area after 2021... Neither one car will be allowed unless you want to pay 12 pounds a day, I think someone didn't calculate the problems and salaries...

AdrianC

Rocksolid wrote: »

I'm still asking myself how the owners of non hybrid or electric cars will drive in London bigger area after 2021... Neither one car will be allowed unless you want to pay 12 pounds a day, I think someone didn't calculate the problems and salaries...

No, I think you're misunderstanding...

All Euro 4 (2005) and later petrols and Euro 6 (2014) diesels are exempt from the ULEZ - now within the CC Zone, and from 2021 inside the Circulars.
The Congestion Charge has been in operation since 2003.

Martyn1981

This sounds like great news for BEV's in general, as the Renault Zoe is fighting back against Tesla, despite a major facelift on the way. Caveat - though it might just be down to low TM3 supply to Europe in July:

Renault Zoe Wins In July, But Tesla Model 3 Remains 2019 Leader — Europe EV Sales Report

Martyn1981

Rob "Kryten" Llewellyn playing with a BEV mini-excavator:

JCB Electric Excavator | Fully Charged

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Rob "Kryten" Llewellyn playing with a BEV mini-excavator:

JCB Electric Excavator | Fully Charged

...only a year and a half after it was launched...
https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2018/03/28/jcb-unveils-battery-powered-mini-digger/

The diesel engines in that kind of digger aren't very big at all - the direct equivalent JCB is only 760cc, 15bhp, 18 litre fuel tank. The battery in the electric is similarly small - 15kWh standard, 20kWh optional, with a maximum five hours work quoted from the bigger battery.

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

with a maximum five hours work quoted from the bigger battery.

:rotfl: Guess you didn't watch the vid then.

AdrianC

No, I didn't. (The five hour figure, btw, came from JCB's own brochure.)

Some vacuous D-list ex-minor-league actor who's being allowed to play with a mini-digger. Woo. Oh, but it's electric...

Mini-diggers are good fun. I rented a tiddler like that, to do the base for moving our LPG tank, and I've had a quick go in a 6t while the groundworks for the garage were being done. What drives the hydraulic pump is pretty much irrelevant.