Electric cars

AdrianC

DrEskimo wrote: »

Whilst it's just my opinion, but I strongly suspect the e-208 will be worth more than the expected GFV of just £12,387. You can't even get a 3yr old 40kWh Zoe with only AC charging for anywhere close to £15k at the moment. Older 30kWh Leaf's are selling for £13k today.

Supply of used EVs is severely constrained currently, massively outstripped by demand.

That's not a situation that's going to last forever.

Rocksolid

AdrianC wrote: »

The London ULEZ will apply to inside the North and South circulars only - not outside. And, of course, they're areas that are very well served by public transport. The cut-off is Euro6 diesel, and Euro4/5/6 petrol - so about 2014 for diesels, but 2004 for petrols. The assymetry is because they're focussing on NOx, and those dates are the point at which they dropped to current levels.

The congestion charge is another question - that only applies to a very small central area (which the ULEZ already applies to). Fuel makes no difference to congestion...

buglawton wrote: »

You're not wrong. Current state of EV suits the London privileged. Norway is worth considering.

Guys...
I will live inside the enforcement zone after 2021... Discounts for residents not in plan, that's why I think I made the worst investment of my life...

Well go in Norway would be awesome for me, but I'm not Norvegian, it's not something I can do from one day to another one, it's a change of life and is not possible without a job...

Martyn1981

The rumour mill keeps suggesting Germany for the European Tesla Gigafactory. Seems like a sensible location, given it's relatively central position, skilled workforce etc etc..

Tesla Scouting New Factory Locations In Germany

trickydicky802

Car_54 wrote: »

The duty on fuel is just another convenient way of raising tax revenue.

There is no logical reason for taxing the motorist in particular, any more than there is for example for taxing house-buyers (stamp duty) or the recently bereaved (IHT). Except perhaps that all three arguably can afford it.

It would be much simpler, and vastly cheaper, to add say 2p to income tax than to devise a whole new way of taxing the motorist.

Basically true. But governments can't seem to resist a bit of social engineering, and all the myriad of taxes on this, that and the other (no, not that 'other' - well not yet anyway!) gives the Chancellor plenty to fiddle with and makes the budget speeches drone on for longer than necessary.

I tend to agree with you. 'Flat taxes' (or something approaching that) would indeed be far simpler to administer and collect, plus it would eliminate 'ability to pay' issues such as (for example) pensioners no longer able to afford the council tax on their homes because their income has fallen on retirement.


So yes, good idea, but I can't see it ever happening.

AdrianC

Martyn1981 wrote: »

The rumour mill keeps suggesting Germany for the European Tesla Gigafactory. Seems like a sensible location, given it's relatively central position, skilled workforce etc etc..

Tesla Scouting New Factory Locations In Germany

Yet the German manufacturers are moving production to lower-cost countries like Hungary and Slovakia.

Car_54

AdrianC wrote: »

Yet the German manufacturers are moving production to lower-cost countries like Hungary and Slovakia.

Yes indeed. And a ‘skilled workforce’ isn’t necessary. It can even be a negative, as they bring old habits and expectations. Nissan and Toyota have done pretty well with new sites in Washington and Derby.

AdrianC

Car_54 wrote: »

Yes indeed. And a ‘skilled workforce’ isn’t necessary. It can even be a negative, as they bring old habits and expectations. Nissan and Toyota have done pretty well with new sites in Washington and Derby.

Especially for a manufacturer who bill themselves as being so very highly automated.

But the skills are there - Slovakia's motor industry is 12% of their GDP, 40% of their industrial manufacturing, 25% of their exports - the single largest industry.

trickydicky802

Car_54 wrote: »

Yes indeed. And a ‘skilled workforce’ isn’t necessary. It can even be a negative, as they bring old habits and expectations. Nissan and Toyota have done pretty well with new sites in Washington and Derby.

Not only is a 'skilled workforce' not necesssary, it's not even desirable. Humans are too unreliable for high quality mass production. Besides who actually wants a repetitive manufacturing job anyway?


Sure, needing such jobs is a whole different discussion and we'll need some serious social changes when the robots really take over, but the fact is that we've advanced to the point where we don't need 'factory fodder' and it has been a good thing in terms of manufacturing productivity and quality.

AdrianC

trickydicky802 wrote: »

but the fact is that we've advanced to the point where we don't need 'factory fodder' and it has been a good thing in terms of manufacturing productivity and quality.

Hmm.

If we go with Tesla's Fremont assembly plant as state of the art, then remember that 10k people work there, putting out about 250k vehicles/year - so not exactly a huge plant compared to many. VW's Wolfsburg plant puts out over three times as many cars.

Sure, not all of that 10k are directly on the line, but a hell of a lot are. And those are skilled jobs. The unskilled bits have already been automated. The bits that still need wetware are the hard bits. Even bodyshell assembly is still 10% manual - almost certainly largely on inspection and QC. Robots will be working with a lot of the assembly staff - largely by taking the weight of heavy/awkward things, such as inserting complete dash assemblies.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/03/31/a-look-inside-teslas-fremont-automotive-factory-cleantechnica-exclusive/

almillar

He does admit he didn't start with a full battery and was otherwise quite complimentary about the car.

Going on a long journey without a full battery. He just wanted to write a bad article. In an ICE car, he should have had a full tank. Did he take his smartphone with him? Was it charged, or can we expect an article about smartphones being rubbish because they don't last all day? (from 30% charge!!).

and £50-80k to spend on the car...

200 mile range EVs can be had for much less than that. Do keep up.

Any suggestions for a good car leasing company for premium electric vehicles? Some adverts seem too good to be true!!!

I lease my Soul EV via Drive Electric (actually ends up being billed by Lex Autoleasing) and I would highly recommend them - very knowledgeable about EVs and leasing.

I agree up to a point, but my point is that EVs, especially Teslas, are too big and too expensive. Even £37k is way out of reach for almost everyone in the UK, let alone less prosperous places.

Haven't you heard of the Renault Zoe or Nissan Leaf? Both far below £37k. What size of car do you want? You can have a Smart EV if you want, it doesn't get much smaller than that!

Your Zoe is the exception and there will be more like it in the next few years

Round my way, Zoes and Leafs are by far the most popular EV. Not the exception. You seem snobby about Renault, but unwilling to pay for the premium badges?

Real world 200 mile range for £20k new might do it for me.

We're there. The premium badges aren't, and may never be, unless you want a base spec A1 EV. You can have a new Zoe ZE40 fo that right now. About to be replaced, but new model will start more expensive.

There is no question a €5000 rebate after 7 months (cash in hand) is a wonderful incentive.

You do realise that if you buy an EV in the UK, right now, you'll get £4,500 off it, without bothering with rebates?!