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Electric cars
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The E208 starts at £25,050, (after the £3,500 grant), whilst the 208 petrol model starts at £16,250.
Slightly misleading, as the entry level e-208 is hardly comparable to the EV version.
The £16k 208 is a 5-speed manual 1.2 petrol with peak power of 74BHP and 87 lb/ft torque. In contrast, the EV is 'automatic' and has a peak output of 136BHP and up to 220 lb/ft torque. That results in a difference of over 5secs 0-62, at 8.1 vs 13.2.
About the only engine that is comparable is the 1.2 petrol 130 model that is available in the Allure and GT line trim. That is £4,750 cheaper relative to the EV.
Ignoring depreciation (which has been shown to be significantly less on the EV), 3yr/30k miles will probably be about £3.5-£4k cheaper in the EV given fuel, VED and servicing savings.
£750 extra for a car with better power, better power delivery, better 'gearbox', pre-heating and no local air pollution....sounds alright to me...0 -
Slightly misleading, as the entry level e-208 is hardly comparable to the EV version.
The £16k 208 is a 5-speed manual 1.2 petrol with peak power of 74BHP and 87 lb/ft torque. In contrast, the EV is 'automatic' and has a peak output of 136BHP and up to 220 lb/ft torque. That results in a difference of over 5secs 0-62, at 8.1 vs 13.2.
About the only engine that is comparable is the 1.2 petrol 130 model that is available in the Allure and GT line trim. That is £4,750 cheaper relative to the EV.
Ignoring depreciation (which has been shown to be significantly less on the EV), 3yr/30k miles will probably be about £3.5-£4k cheaper in the EV given fuel, VED and servicing savings.
£750 extra for a car with better power, better power delivery, better 'gearbox', pre-heating and no local air pollution....sounds alright to me...
Thank you for applying context. Once that's done, BEV's look like they may have already won ....... just need a cheap BEV Zafira(like) vehicle now, so I can join in and play.
Mart. Cardiff. 5.58 kWp PV systems (3.58 ESE & 2.0 WNW). Two A2A units for cleaner heating.
For general PV advice please see the PV FAQ thread on the Green & Ethical Board.0 -
Like for like it's not a big deal, you'd be compared top end petrol with EV, but for the 'cars are a white box to get from A to B' who don't care about any of that, it's quite a sticker shock.I agree up to a point, but my point is that EVs, especially Teslas, are too big and too expensive. Even £37k is way out of reach for almost everyone in the UK, let alone less prosperous places.
There are a lot of cars that cost more than £37k and a lot of people driving them, so I don't think it's that big a barrier for those that have company cars or buy new. EV's haven't really trickled down to the lower end of the used car market yet.
Then there's also the Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) - an EV may cost £10k more to buy initially, but it could easily save over £10k in fuel/tax/maintenance over its lifetime.It would be much simpler, and vastly cheaper, to add say 2p to income tax than to devise a whole new way of taxing the motorist.
I agree with this. Everyone in the country is benefiting from a maintained road network whether or not they drive. They either walk on the footpaths, cycle, get buses, or buy goods/services transported over the roads.
By ditching the VED and fuel duties, we'd be vastly simplifying things and paying more based on ability to pay rather than need (which is a bit socialist for England). The simplification may even actually save some money, since we've already got the income tax mechanism.0 -
It's worth emphasising (yet again) that VED has nothing to do with maintaining the road network - it's simply part of general taxation.I agree with this. Everyone in the country is benefiting from a maintained road network whether or not they drive. They either walk on the footpaths, cycle, get buses, or buy goods/services transported over the roads.
By ditching the VED and fuel duties, we'd be vastly simplifying things and paying more based on ability to pay rather than need (which is a bit socialist for England). The simplification may even actually save some money, since we've already got the income tax mechanism.0 -
Let's face it, for the vast majority of new cars being privately registered, list price is pretty much irrelevant - except for the £40k VED breakpoint. It's PCP/lease/HP monthlies that are the important figure. And, of course, they take depreciation into account.
As for EV vs ICE depreciation, it may be a smaller percentage on the EV, but it'll be a bigger £ amount.0 -
Hello,
Just came recently in UK and bought a car for 6k, + 1200 annual insurance...
It turned out that I will move in London and that I can't drive this car from October 2021...
Basically I need to do something before that damn date...
Suggestions?
I have a Renault Megane 1.5 dci and I love it because is eco, but it won't be possible to use it in London, and as far as I see from 2025 neither electric cars can run in London unless you pay 12.5 pounds per day, to me it looks like someone won't hold that chair for a long time...
How common people will move to enjoy weekends? It's already bad here for the weather and also for the bad transport outside London, which basically runs on diesel trains!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm thinking to sell my car now to avoid depreciation and buy an electric, but prices are awesome.
Then I see the 35% discount but up to 4500 pounds, ahahaha, how can you reach the 35% with 4500 pounds??? All advertisement... En electric cost always more that 27k, a decent one 38k.
Am I wrong in what I get from gov.uk or basically is time to change country?
People like me that like to enjoy a ride with an MTB/downhill how should live inside London???
Or even Motocross or whatever requires a car...0 -
The London ULEZ will apply to inside the North and South circulars only - not outside. And, of course, they're areas that are very well served by public transport. The cut-off is Euro6 diesel, and Euro4/5/6 petrol - so about 2014 for diesels, but 2004 for petrols. The assymetry is because they're focussing on NOx, and those dates are the point at which they dropped to current levels.
The congestion charge is another question - that only applies to a very small central area (which the ULEZ already applies to). Fuel makes no difference to congestion...0 -
Hi... As for EV vs ICE depreciation, it may be a smaller percentage on the EV, but it'll be a bigger £ amount.
Really? ... that's a pretty wide ranging assumption being made there! ...
Half the depreciation rate (ie 'smaller percentage') for the EV vs ICE over the term of ownership (/lease) represents a position where an EV costing double would depreciate at the same '£ amount', with any EV costing less than double that of the ICE (under the same conditions) delivering an advantage in terms of both percentage & cost ... effectively the solution to the depreciation quandary is relative (depending on multiple variables), not absolute as asserted above ...
HTH
Z"We are what we repeatedly do, excellence then is not an act, but a habit. " ...... Aristotle
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You're not wrong. Current state of EV suits the London privileged. Norway is worth considering.Hello,
I'm thinking to sell my car now to avoid depreciation and buy an electric, but prices are awesome.
Then I see the 35% discount but up to 4500 pounds, ahahaha, how can you reach the 35% with 4500 pounds??? All advertisement... En electric cost always more that 27k, a decent one 38k.
Am I wrong in what I get from gov.uk or basically is time to change country?
People like me that like to enjoy a ride with an MTB/downhill how should live inside London???
Or even Motocross or whatever requires a car...0 -
As for EV vs ICE depreciation, it may be a smaller percentage on the EV, but it'll be a bigger £ amount.
Yes of course. In fact, it brings up an important point that I have regularly brought up, which is that a higher purchase price is not a indicator of total cost of ownership. It certainly is a barrier to entry though.
The expected depreciation of the EV Allure trim is £13,863 based on the PCP GFV (£26,250 - £12,387). The expected depreciation of the Petrol EA130 Allure is £11,503 (£21,500-£9,997). So really my figures on the cost difference should be based on this differential of the deprecation, which is £2,360, not the purchase price of £4,750!
It doesn't take many miles to make up that £2,360 difference in expected depreciation. In fact, after just 3yr/30k, the extra cost in fuel and VED will make the EV £1k cheaper. That's before you factor in cheaper servicing too.
Whilst it's just my opinion, but I strongly suspect the e-208 will be worth more than the expected GFV of just £12,387. You can't even get a 3yr old 40kWh Zoe with only AC charging for anywhere close to £15k at the moment. Older 30kWh Leaf's are selling for £13k today. In contrast, I suspect the petrol will be pretty close to the £10k GFV....
Of course this is not reflected in the PCP. As you say, this will reflect the higher absolute cost of depreciation, and the higher purchase price will increase the interest payable on top too. But even still, when you factor in fuel and VED to the monthly PCP, the e-208 is still likely cheaper.
....not that I would ever advise 5% APR on a PCP, or indeed brand new cars on the MSE forum!0
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