Electric cars

jimbo6977

jeepjunkie wrote: »

Correct, almost 18 months ago.

Just got to hunt and be prepared to travel then move quick on the right car.

Cheers

Right, well I'll keep my eyes open. Although a potential house move might make all of this academic, for 4k it would be worth a go anyway. Thanks.

zeupater

AdrianC wrote: »

Agreed. I'm perfectly happy to let the subthread drop.

https://www.casece.com/emea/en-eu/products/excavators/crawler-excavators/models/cx300d

And, of course, industrial/commercial diesels are nothing like car diesels. They're much larger capacity, much higher torque, much lower revving. Your typical 38t Merc artic has similar horsepower to an S-class. But you certainly couldn't use the S-class engine in the artic... If Case could get away with fitting something like a 2.0 car diesel in there, don't you think they would, instead of a 7.8 litre truck lump?

Hi

Nice try at the spin - nobody is talking about industrial /commercial diesels vs a diesel car engine, we're talking about electric motors with heaps of torque which could be powered by battery packs of similar capacity to that used in a current production long range EV ...

... as for the link, no need to supply one because a relevant example had already been raised (JCB 220x) - we've probably all played 'top trumps' at some time or other, but arguing about huge tracked excavators doesn't do anything other than highlight a state of desperation in a long running anti-electrification dialogue, particularly so considering that whilst arguing that the application of electrons in this sector can't & won't work is flawed, because it actually already exists ... just use the search term ' 323F Z-Line ', there's likely plenty enough to keep you reading for a couple of days!


Just as with previous statements regarding the Tesla Semi, claims of something being impossible, impracticable or unaffordable when they already exist and have an expectant market may often be considered by others to be based more on wishful thinking than reality ...

Looks like we can all look forward to nice quiet zero emissions excavators & other contractor equipment being delivered by nice quiet zero emissions Tesla low-loaders to operate in nice quiet urban areas nearby sooner than some may think ... alternatively, according to some with tin-foil hats on & wearing their "Petrolhead 'till I fry" attire, don't get your hopes up, it's all vapourware and nonsense so nothing will ever come of it! .... :think: .... maybe they've got a point? ... :doh:... probably not though! ...

Should I take this opportunity to mention that just down the road they're currently laying conduits to move some troublesome overhead electricity cable runs underground so we've got some temporary traffic lights not far away .... no noisy generator kicking out fumes for days on end, no cables, just nice quiet zero emissions all day - nice ... ... shame you can't say that about about all of the stationary vehicles queueing up at peak times though .... :idea: .. I wonder whether anyone's thought about cleaning up the emissions by putting an electric motor in them ?? .... :wave::whistle:

HTH
Z

AdrianC

zeupater wrote: »

Should I take this opportunity to mention that just down the road they're currently laying conduits to move some troublesome overhead electricity cable runs underground so we've got some temporary traffic lights not far away .... no noisy generator kicking out fumes for days on end, no cables, just nice quiet zero emissions all day - nice ...

Yep, low-power-consumption LEDs are wonderful things. But battery-powered temporary traffic lights have been around for ages, even with incandescents. That's what's in the big boxes at the bottom of the lights - the weight allows them to double as stabilisers.

The "generators" are quite probably air compressors for the tools.

... shame you can't say that about about all of the stationary vehicles queueing up at peak times though .... :idea: .. I wonder whether anyone's though about cleaning up the emissions by putting an electric motor in them ?? .... :wave::whistle:

Or simply turning them off when they aren't running?

Oh, wait. Almost anything vaguely recent does that automatically - but the driver's always been able to do it. In many places in Sweden, it's been the law for ages - you see signs at urban limits giving the maximum time. Other places are catching up, slowly, finally.

Car_54

Herzlos wrote: »

The electric JCB (with the 150kg battery, according to you) weighs in at 1827 for transport. Going by the spec sheet it'll need something the size of an Ifor GH94 which only weighs 500kg (https://www.iwt.co.uk/products/plant/gh-plant/?tab=spec#tab) which means you're only sitting at 2227kg.

2327 surely?

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

20kWh/150kg is replacing a 70kg diesel in those little minidiggers. Those diesel engines never need replacing.

Anyway, we're talking about the much bigger kit. So a minimum of, say, 100kWh battery. Yes, it could be 5 x 20kWh packs. Either way, they've got to be removed, loaded into a wagon, back to base, charged, back to site, refitted. Every night.

So, to be clear, you are trying to point out that for much larger plant, the battery will weigh much more ........ but has it occurred to you that with heavier plant, said plant can handle heavier loads too?

Call me naive, but I'd assumed that a 20tonne+ excavator could lift out heavy batts, and again, call me naive, that the operator is skilled at his/her job too.

So, to repeat - heavy plant and skilled operators on site, able to carry out batt swops themselves. Simples ....... unless Ade can make some carp up! :eek:

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

At which point, you start hitting towing weight limits.

Many crewcab 4x4 pickups are only 2.8t towing limit, with nothing above the 3.5t breakpoint where things get a LOT harder. You've got the thick end of 2t on top of the trailer already, and the trailer itself's ~750kg

Even if you've got 3.5t towing capacity, start to lob much in the back of the pickup or van and you're at risk of hitting GTW.


At which point, it'll then do what can already be done easily.

Let me think, what do we see lots of at building sites (and residential properties too), oh yes, I remember, building supplies trucks, the ones carrying multiple bulk bags (850kg each) and what's that strange 'dragon like' beast mounted on the truck, oh yes it's a crane.

Oh, Ade, you do make me laugh trying to find problems for every solution, but never offering a solution to a problem.

Martyn1981

AdrianC wrote: »

And, of course, industrial/commercial diesels are nothing like car diesels. They're much larger capacity, much higher torque, much lower revving.

But electric motors have even more torque than heavy diesels, and without the need for gears.

In fact, if you go large enough - earth movers, trains or ships, then the diesel engine is relegated to working as a generator, since the vehicles are propelled by electric motors due to the enormous torque needed. Top trumped me thinks! Or sticking with the nautical reference, hoisted by your own petard.

Herzlos

Car_54 wrote: »

2327 surely?

Yup, 2327kg, sorry. That still leaves 373kg for other stuff, which isn't too shabby.
3500kg trailers are also available if that's not enough and you've got something that can tow it.

Herzlos

Martyn1981 wrote: »

So, to be clear, you are trying to point out that for much larger plant, the battery will weigh much more ........ but has it occurred to you that with heavier plant, said plant can handle heavier loads too?

Call me naive, but I'd assumed that a 20tonne+ excavator could lift out heavy batts, and again, call me naive, that the operator is skilled at his/her job too.

So, to repeat - heavy plant and skilled operators on site, able to carry out batt swops themselves. Simples ....... unless Ade can make some carp up! :eek:

I never even considered the idea that a dual battery digger could swap it's own batteries.
I just assumed there'd be something else on site like a telehandler to do it.

AdrianC

Well, yes, diesel-electric is hardly new tech, is it? Diesel-electric trains took over from steam in the late 50s. Diesel-electric ships date back to the start of the 20th century, and the very first diesel ships.
Pretty much the same difference to diesel-hydraulic, except instead of hydraulic fluid being compressed by the diesel and turning wheels/hubs/propellers/travel motors, it's electricity acting as the medium. 'course, on plant you still need the hydraulics for rams.

Anyway, you'll have to excuse me - I must get packed for a 250-mile-each-way weekend, with no idea what the parking's going to be at our friend's house in the centre of a small, historic East Anglian town... Next weekend's going to be 200 miles each way for camping in a Yorkshire village pub's beer garden.