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Music grades
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1) I did say distinction , a pass and distinction are very different. I did say they would need that just to be considered, they still needed an audition on top.
2) I didn't say you could exchange I said they were considered the same level.
The level of playing required to pass grade 8 means that there is very little difference between a pass and a distinction. A distinction for grade 8 is still nowhere near good enough to pass an audition for a music college where they train people who are going to play in an orchestra for a job.0 -
and condescending opening post of the day goes to.........
You might find it condescending but there are some teachers who put their students in for one grade after another without giving them the option of not taking them. I just wanted to point out that they are not necessary for learning an instrument. Also there are so many myths about them that people don't always realise that they don't mean anything to anyone other than the person taking them. If you like collecting certificates then they are ideal for that. Collecting the certificates for grades is like collecting swimming badges.
You can't use grades for anything. From the discussion on this thread it is clear that people don't realise that you can do everything you want to in learning a musical instrument without spending any time or money on grade exams. Some people don't realise that you don't need to take them. The point of this thread was to point out to people who don't know that they aren't necessary for learning to play a musical that they don't have to pay for them if they don't want to and they or their child will not be disadvantaged by not taking grades.
It is a money saving website. You can save a lot of money by not paying for grades.0 -
What a strange post.
How would a young musician get an audition for a good school of music without some kind of selection process. If not grades then just the biased opinion of their music teacher ? Sounds pretty realistic.
The OP is starting from an assumption that all music students have ambition to progress to further study at an institution of music. Many talented musicians don't and regard it as recreational ......bit like the several glasses some posters consume before posting a new thread I suppose. The OP also doesn't understand that may schools music programmes pay for the grading , not the parents.
A really uninformed and poorly thought out opening post.I Would Rather Climb A Mountain Than Crawl Into A Hole
MSE Florida wedding .....no problem0 -
You might find it condescending but there are some teachers who put their students in for one grade after another without giving them the option of not taking them. I just wanted to point out that they are not necessary for learning an instrument. Also there are so many myths about them that people don't always realise that they don't mean anything to anyone other than the person taking them. If you like collecting certificates then they are ideal for that. Collecting the certificates for grades is like collecting swimming badges.
You can't use grades for anything. From the discussion on this thread it is clear that people don't realise that you can do everything you want to in learning a musical instrument without spending any time or money on grade exams. Some people don't realise that you don't need to take them. The point of this thread was to point out to people who don't know that they aren't necessary for learning to play a musical that they don't have to pay for them if they don't want to and they or their child will not be disadvantaged by not taking grades.
It is a money saving website. You can save a lot of money by not paying for grades.
I don't do exams for other reasons not the ones you stated. I pay far more per lesson with my teacher than other teachers in the area. Despite being retired and not planning to have a career in music I still want to take lessons even though I'm not taking exams. At no point has it been suggested that I take exams. However I once mentioned that I find it strange that hobby players particularly adults choose to take exams, the reason given it gives them motivation to practice. I would consider it more a waste of money to take lessons and not practise enough in between than take lessons and practise then take an exam after a year.0 -
What a strange post.
How would a young musician get an audition for a good school of music without some kind of selection process. If not grades then just the biased opinion of their music teacher ? Sounds pretty realistic.
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Exactly. Who does OP think stands more chance of getting an audition, the performer who puts on their application 'I have RAM grades 1-8' or the performer who puts 'My teachers says I'm really good but I haven't taken any exams'.Accept your past without regret, handle your present with confidence and face your future without fear0 -
These are very rare. Out of the 4 teachers I have had 2 were OK but not what I would consider good. I've even come across a well known player who I wouldn't consider a good teacher.I need to think of something new here...0
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I apologise in advance as this is quite a long post, but I really feel quite aggrieved at the OP
Whilst I agree in some parts with the OP, especially the cost of entering and preparing for an instrument, (I use London College of Music, and every year they put up the cost of every exam by approx £1/£1.50, even though the syllabus only changes about every 5/6 years.), I would have to disagree totally on their argument that exams are an expensive piece of paper.
I have been a violin & piano tutor for many years. Throughout this time, I have witnessed all calibre of students pass through my doors, and the vast majority of them, once they were at the correct stage were entered in for exams. I myself had started at a young age and had attained my Grade 8 ABRSM in piano by the time I was 15. However, if you had asked me to play something for you, I could only have played you my latest exam piece, it has only been in later years that I have gone back and learned a larger repertoire of pieces just for fun.
With this is mind, I try to incorporate a healthy balance of graded and leisure pieces into my students education. Most grades take between 6 and 9 months of prep (Longer for the higher grades 5-8) We try to get exams out of the way at Christmas or Easter and then spend the last few weeks of the term learning new leisure pieces. At the moment the majority of my kids are practicing Christmas songs just for fun (though I may crack if I hear Jingle Bells again!!)
I would also disagree with the OP's assertion that most universities do not accept the grades in place of UCAS points. Over the past 3/4 years, I have had 6 students who have used the points gained from grades 6/7/8 to help boost this overall points to ensure they got into the course they needed. Yes they werent the straight equivalent of an A Level, but in all 6 cases, the few points these came with took them over the level required and they were accepted.
I find that students who have nothing to work towards find it difficult to be motivated to learn pieces for fun. For example, I currently have one student already is completing exams in Violin and so after doing up to Grade 3 in Piano, decided he wanted to concentrate on on his higher grades on the other instrument. We just do leisure pieces each week. Now he is quite talented but progress on these leisure pieces are slower than what I would expect if he was being graded. These are pieces he picks and wants to learn, but because there is no real pressure or deadline on him, he is making much slower progress than I would like. Thankfully his mother is very much hands on and makes a great effort to ensure he practice each week, but I fear it will all be for nothing very soon and he will lose interest. As I teach the boy both violin and piano, I can see how eager and talented he is when he knows he will be assessed at the end of the year.
The OP makes the point a few times about Grade 8 being "elementary" and that receiving a distinction should be easy for most young children. I don't know what kind of Mickey Mouse exam board the OP uses, but having experienced both LCM and ABRSM for both piano and violin, I can confirm it is extremely difficult. I find this highly offensive and insulting to all the kids & adults alike that practice constantly and receive a pass or merit.
One last point, the OP continually talks about being Grade 8 Standard - what even does this mean? Being a musician does not just mean playing an instrument at a certain level. You also need to be able to play by ear, listen carefully to intervals, cadences and distinguish rhythms. Sight reading is also a very important, as it helps paves the way for learning and exploring new pieces of music. Scales and technical work play a vital role in strengthening the fingers and hands, as well learning about keys and chord structures. Preparing for an exam takes you through all of this.
I had a student once that was so proud of the fact they could play the first section of The Maple Leaf Rag off by heart, which they had learned by listening to it on loop on YouTube over about 6 weeks. They wanted to progress to the 2nd section but could not find a version online of the same standard they had gotten the first part off, I would have assessed this student at about Gr 5 based on their technical ability on this piece alone. I found music of the first 3 sections of the piece, in near enough the exact same arrangement they had been used to, and yet we hit a major wall as they could not read the music written in front of them. He struggled through this piece for a full term before deciding to go back and prepare for an exam instead. Having relearned how to read music notes and rhythms, we again attempted the Rag once he had finished his Grade 5 exam, he sailed through the newer sections and even improved the first section.
Learning an instrument needs a student who is willing to put in the practice, parents/family that will be there to support and encourage them especially in the early years and the desire to improve and develop.
I am honest with my students and parents, if little or no progress is being made, I let the parents know so they can make a decision as to whether to continue lessons - I am not out to get every pound I can off unsuspecting people. I currently have 15 students, all of various levels, and I would rather stick with them than have double that of kids that are just being sent for the heck of it.
sk56Savings: £2 Jar: £804/£1000
Debts: Santander 1211.12/1780.47 (32% Paid) Total Debt Paid Off £12871.660 -
Being a very good (whatever) doesn't necessarily make you a good tutor in (whatever); there's skill and technique in teaching/coaching/explaining/motivating. Applies to music, sport, technology, life skills and more. Similarly, the best players don't necessarily make the best conductors or arrangers or musical directors. Overlapping skill sets but not always transferable. In reverse - a very good teacher or examiner or competition judge usually has to be a good musician in the first place.
Unfortunately for anyone who teaches me I have taught science for a lot of my working life and can see through them. My current music teacher is probably one of the best teachers I have ever come across at any level in any subject, he is also a very gifted international performer.0 -
peachyprice wrote: »Exactly. Who does OP think stands more chance of getting an audition, the performer who puts on their application 'I have RAM grades 1-8' or the performer who puts 'My teachers says I'm really good but I haven't taken any exams'.
I got into the best music college in the world with a letter from my Mum.0 -
Then it's bad teachers you should be complaining against and not the exam system..
I don't do exams for other reasons not the ones you stated. I pay far more per lesson with my teacher than other teachers in the area. Despite being retired and not planning to have a career in music I still want to take lessons even though I'm not taking exams. At no point has it been suggested that I take exams. However I once mentioned that I find it strange that hobby players particularly adults choose to take exams, the reason given it gives them motivation to practice. I would consider it more a waste of money to take lessons and not practise enough in between than take lessons and practise then take an exam after a year.
I am with you on this one. I find it strange that people will pay a lot of money for lessons and then only practice between them if they have an exam coming up. Or even only practice if they have an exam coming up. I am not concerned about the people who only want take the exams and not learn the instrument they have made their decision on how to spend their money. I am only concerned about the people who don't know that you don't have to take any grade in order to get into university, music college, local amateur groups etc.0
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