Music grades

elsien

Cakeguts wrote: »

Because of all the myths surrounding these exams some people appear to think that taking them is a necessary part of learning a musical instrument.

I really don't think they do. I started doing grades, realised it was pointless as nerves kept overcoming me, and carried on with lessons and theory purely for my own enjoyment and development.

You keep banging on about grades being meaningless and elementary.
Define elementary, because it can mean many things according to your achievements and ability. And when you define it as a comparison with other things, whatever that is that you choose, then you'll be doing exactly what the grades do. Because that's what they're for, the same as any other exam.

Voyager2002

You need to distinguish between taking the exams, and studying in a structured way... Learning a musical instrument involves learning a whole series of techniques, and understanding when to use each technique in order to perform a particular piece. Often you need to be proficient in one technique in order to begin learning a more advanced one. The system of 'grades' more or less forces the teacher to work on the various techniques in a logical order, since the pieces chosen at each level progressively require more and more advanced techniques.So someone who wants to be good at playing an instrument needs to begin by learning what is required to pass Grade 1, and progressively extend this until s/he would be able to pass Grade 8.

The certificates are of minimal value, but the ability to pass an exam tests the same skills and personal qualities that are required to pass an audition for a decent orchestra. And someone who lacks the skills that are tested at (say) Grade V would be wasting their time trying to learn the techniques needed at Grade VIII, so extra lessons to master these skills would be needed, even if the exam fee is an unnecessary expense.

NBLondon

I think the point that the OP might have been trying to make is that parents are/could be paying a lot of money to get a child through the grades (exam fees, coaching, music - and how about buying a better quality instrument?) because they are led to believe that the grade passes are essential to get into higher levels of music study, or because schools or music teachers rely on them to measure pupils' progress.


Yes - you can get into a good college or a prestigious group on audition talent alone - but you would probably have to demonstrate the equivalent skill level in order to get the recommendation for audition. Just like being a natural athlete with no formal training - someone has to recognise the potential.


Yes - passing the exams only proves you know the theory and have the technical ability to pass those exams and it doesn't necessarily prove all the skills needed for ensemble playing. Just like having a GCSE in Business Studies doesn't prove you're an entrepreneur.


Yes - If you only want to learn and play for the enjoyment, then the grades are not necessary.


I stopped at Grade IV (trombone) because my sense of intonation wasn't really good enough to get further even though I could manage the theory. So I only played in the lower divisions of youth orchestras and brass bands. Fine by me - I never planned/wanted to make a career of it...

Cakeguts

elsien wrote: »

I really don't think they do. I started doing grades, realised it was pointless as nerves kept overcoming me, and carried on with lessons and theory purely for my own enjoyment and development.

You keep banging on about grades being meaningless and elementary.
Define elementary, because it can mean many things according to your achievements and ability. And when you define it as a comparison with other things, whatever that is that you choose, then you'll be doing exactly what the grades do. Because that's what they're for, the same as any other exam.

Definition of elementary.

The standards required to get a job in a professional orchestra are so high these days because of the competition that grade 8 in musical instrument playing is roughly the equivalent of someone in primary school passing a reading test. It is difficult for someone who has just started an instrument to realise how high standards are. It is the absolute beginning of learning just a start. So when I say elementary this is in comparison to what is needed to get a job playing in an orchestra.

Cakeguts

Voyager2002 wrote: »

You need to distinguish between taking the exams, and studying in a structured way... Learning a musical instrument involves learning a whole series of techniques, and understanding when to use each technique in order to perform a particular piece. Often you need to be proficient in one technique in order to begin learning a more advanced one. The system of 'grades' more or less forces the teacher to work on the various techniques in a logical order, since the pieces chosen at each level progressively require more and more advanced techniques.So someone who wants to be good at playing an instrument needs to begin by learning what is required to pass Grade 1, and progressively extend this until s/he would be able to pass Grade 8.

The certificates are of minimal value, but the ability to pass an exam tests the same skills and personal qualities that are required to pass an audition for a decent orchestra. And someone who lacks the skills that are tested at (say) Grade V would be wasting their time trying to learn the techniques needed at Grade VIII, so extra lessons to master these skills would be needed, even if the exam fee is an unnecessary expense.

Good musical instrument teachers do not follow the grade structures. If you read the information for grades it says that it is not the whole syllabus. Grades have nothing to do with playing in ensembles that is a completely different set of skills. It is possible to pass grade 8 and be unable to play in an amateur orchestra.

Cakeguts

NBLondon wrote: »

I think the point that the OP might have been trying to make is that parents are/could be paying a lot of money to get a child through the grades (exam fees, coaching, music - and how about buying a better quality instrument?) because they are led to believe that the grade passes are essential to get into higher levels of music study, or because schools or music teachers rely on them to measure pupils' progress.


Yes - you can get into a good college or a prestigious group on audition talent alone - but you would probably have to demonstrate the equivalent skill level in order to get the recommendation for audition. Just like being a natural athlete with no formal training - someone has to recognise the potential.


Yes - passing the exams only proves you know the theory and have the technical ability to pass those exams and it doesn't necessarily prove all the skills needed for ensemble playing. Just like having a GCSE in Business Studies doesn't prove you're an entrepreneur.


Yes - If you only want to learn and play for the enjoyment, then the grades are not necessary.


I stopped at Grade IV (trombone) because my sense of intonation wasn't really good enough to get further even though I could manage the theory. So I only played in the lower divisions of youth orchestras and brass bands. Fine by me - I never planned/wanted to make a career of it...

Thank you this is what I had in mind.

Just one thing though. If you have only just reached the standard of playing required to pass grade 8 there is no point in doing an audition for a top music college because the standard required to pass the audition is much much higher so there has to be a reference from the teacher.

borkid

Cakeguts wrote: »

I have put a price on them because many people don't realise the full cost of taking these grades and they don't realise that there is no need for anyone to take them. They don't lead onto anything. You don't have to have passed any grade to play in a community group. They increase in difficulty but grade 8 still only needs an elementary standard of playing to pass it. Elementary in terms of what it is possible to do on any instrument which is why music college entrance is by audition not which grades you have passed.

But unless it has changed to get that audition you need to be grade 8. When my son applied for a music technology course several years ago he had to have grade 5 and grade 7 in a different instrument before he was even considered for a place he then had to go to an audition. Out of the 300 applicatants applying for the 20 places they only took 16 in his year.

Grade 8 is roughly equivalent to A level. I seem to remember many years ago that the entrance qualification to conservatoires was a distinction at grade 8. That would sift out people who had no chance. There would still be more applicants than spaces so an audition which looked for other qualities. as in any profession an exam is just the starting point at whatever level. By your reasoning I could argue why did I need a modern foreign language to study science. It was the way it was back then, yet another hoop to be jumped through before interview.

I actually do play an instrument as a hobby and haven't taken grades in it. I was not intending to make a career in it so didn't need them and I have enough motivation to practise. A lot of adults ( and children) need the motivation to practice and like to have a goal at the end. They get a feeling of pride and achievement from that 'bit of paper'.

borkid

Cakeguts wrote: »

The point of the post is that these exams are not cheap. Grade 8 in 2016 cost £87 plus the lessons to learn the music and the cost of buying the music plus the cost of employing a pianist to play the accompaniment if it isn't a piano exam. Because of all the myths surrounding these exams some people appear to think that taking them is a necessary part of learning a musical instrument. If you don't take any of these exams you will save £100s and not lose out on anything. As this is a money saving website not doing these exams if you are learning an instrument is a really good way of saving a lot of cash.

Or a guitar exam

borkid

Cakeguts wrote: »

Good musical instrument teachers do not follow the grade structures. If you read the information for grades it says that it is not the whole syllabus. Grades have nothing to do with playing in ensembles that is a completely different set of skills. It is possible to pass grade 8 and be unable to play in an amateur orchestra.

These are very rare. Out of the 4 teachers I have had 2 were OK but not what I would consider good. I've even come across a well known player who I wouldn't consider a good teacher.

Gleeful

Cakeguts wrote: »

People have. Not all exam boards require you to take grade 5 theory before taking grade 8.

Trinity don't have a requirement to have done Grade 5 theory, but ABRSM do.